<div dir="ltr">Lori,<div><br></div><div>I'm not sure if part of the perception issue is related to funding. I'm not sure libraries/consortia adopting open source always understand that their commitment has to go beyond just making suggestions if they want to affect improvements and see specific features. There has to be a commitment of funds to develop and or hiring developers. I know in C/W MARS some of our member libraries did not thoroughly understand this commitment when we migrated to Evergreen.</div><div><br></div><div>I also agree that it would be good for the community to find ways to bring more developers into the fold.</div><div><br></div><div>Tim Spindler</div><div>Executive Director | C/W MARS</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 4:38 PM, Lori Ayre <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:lori.ayre@galecia.com" target="_blank">lori.ayre@galecia.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">Thanks for your feedback, Kathy. Based on the release notes, it does look like some important progress is being made. Be advised that I was reporting what I'm hearing from people as I talk to various Evergreen community members so it is a perception out there even if there is some good progress being made. I wonder if it has more to do with who's enhancements are represented in the release notes. If a library has had something on a wish list for a long time and they haven't made any progress bringing it to fruition, I imagine they would be frustrated. </div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">So maybe part of the problem is that people don't know what they need to do to increase the likelihood of a desired enhancement getting the right kind of attention. That might be another angle to focus on....is there a resource out there that provides some guidance about the process for getting an enhancement into the code? From my point of view, the libraries seem to think the solution to getting an enhancement is to hire Equinox to do it. So, it is possible that many libraries have created their own bottleneck by relying on only one development team. </div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">Do you think you feel better about the progress being made with Evergreen because of MassLNC's very active involvement in the development and developer community? My belief is that you and your team represent a model that others should be replicating. Do you think that if more consortia were doing the kinds of work you and the folks in Massachusetts are doing in terms of documentation and coding, we wouldn't have some of the bottlenecks?</div><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">Lori<br></div></font></span><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">P.S. I don't want to give the impression I'm picking on Equinox. I appreciate all the work they do for sure. I'm looking for feedback because I want to a) support Evergreen and do whatever I can to contribute to its success as I do my consulting work and b) see if my ideas of what would make a difference seem right to those of you in the trenches! So, feedback appreciated online or offline. </div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"> </div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><span class=""><br clear="all"><div><div data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><br></div><div>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-<wbr>=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=</div><div><div>Lori Bowen Ayre // </div><div>Library Technology Consultant / The Galecia Group</div><div><span><span title="Call with Google Voice"><span title="Call with Google Voice"><a href="tel:%28707%29%20763-6869" value="+17077636869" target="_blank">(707) 763-6869</a></span></span> // </span><a href="mailto:Lori.Ayre@galecia.com" target="_blank">Lori.Ayre@galecia.com</a><br></div><div>Availability: <a href="https://doodle.com/loriayre" target="_blank">https://doodle.com/loriayre</a><span> </span></div><div><br></div><div><a href="mailto:Lori.Ayre@galecia.com" target="_blank"></a>Specializing in RFID, automated materials handling, </div><div><span style="font-size:12.8px">workflow optimization, and Drupal services</span></div><div><div>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-<wbr>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
<br></span><div><div class="h5"><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 11:51 AM, Kathy Lussier <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:klussier@masslnc.org" target="_blank">klussier@masslnc.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<p>Hi Lori,</p>
<p>We actually had a discussion at our most recent dev meeting about
building mentorship opportunities for coders and will be
continuing that discussion at the hack-a-way in November. It's
something that I know MassLNC is very interested in seeing happen,
and I'm sure others in the community feel the same.</p>
<p>However, after working firsthand with the OPW program and
observing closely our previous efforts with GSoC, I'm not sure
those programs are the best fit for this community. I think those
programs work very well in open-source communities where there is
a lot of volunteer interest because the software is something that
gets broad use in business or in personal life. Those volunteers
have an incentive to keep contributing to the community after the
internship because they have a vested interest in seeing the
software succeed. <br>
</p>
<p>Although most of our previous interns have certainly loved
libraries, they aren't working in them and, therefore, have no
vested interest in continuing in the community once their
internship is complete. My personal opinion (and others may
disagree with me) is that we might have better success if we work
with people who are already working in libraries or are involved
in MLS programs. <br>
</p>
<p>I do want to take issue with the perception that "all other
development comes to a halt." I'm looking at the draft release
notes for 2.11 -
<a href="https://evergreen-ils.org/documentation/release/RELEASE_NOTES_2_11.html" target="_blank">https://evergreen-ils.org/docu<wbr>mentation/release/RELEASE_NOTE<wbr>S_2_11.html</a>
and the release notes for our March 2.10 release -
<a href="https://evergreen-ils.org/documentation/release/RELEASE_NOTES_2_10.html" target="_blank">https://evergreen-ils.org/docu<wbr>mentation/release/RELEASE_NOTE<wbr>S_2_10.html</a>.
This doesn't look like halted development to me.<br>
</p>
<p>In particular, I would like to point out my personal favorite
from the release notes, the activity metric for relevance ranking
(AKA statistically generated record ratings) that I think will be
a big boon to searches performed in the catalog. This was no small
project and was completed at the same time work was being
performed on the web client. In addition to the web client,
MassLNC has projects lined up to improve cross-reference support
and to make much-needed improvements to search. I'm sure others
have projects coming down the pike as well.</p>
<p>I'm not saying that the web client hasn't taken up a lot of
developer resources over the past couple of years, that I'm not
also concerned about growing developer resources in the community,
and that I'm not looking forward to the day when we the web client
is not putting such a strain on our existing developer resources.
But I do want to point out that the software is moving forward
even as the web client project proceeds.</p>
<p>Please understand that the web client is a very large project
that, while resource intensive, will ultimately bring many
benefits to Evergreen users. It's large, and it has to be large if
we want to see it done right. I applaud Equinox and the larger
developer community for taking the necessary steps to make the big
infrastructure changes rather than bolting on small fixes that
might lead to short-term happiness, but will not bring the larger
improvement that is needed in our software.</p>
<p>Kathy<br>
</p><div><div>
<p><br>
</p>
<div>On 09/02/2016 02:13 PM, Lori Ayre
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">Hi
Kathy and all,</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">I just
went through and read through the thread about participating
in this the last time it came up. And I have to say it was
disheartening. Has anything been done around the idea Grace
raised - to survey people who have attempted to get involved
in coding for Evergreen to find out what the impediments
were? I think that would be very fruitful....if you can find
them. </div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">I have
a perspective on this topic I'd like to share. I'm working
with a couple Evergreen consortia right now and in the process
I'm talking with many other consortia on Evergreen (and other
ILSs including Koha) and there is a consistent theme that
Evergreen development is too slow and that this is beginning
to make some consortia question whether Evergreen really makes
sense for them. It isn't uncommon for me hear that people are
frustrated that it is taking so long to deliver the web client
and that other enhancements are being tabled until that is
done. And it starts to feel strikingly similar to what it was
like with a commercial ILS where requests for enhancements
were ignored.</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">I think
this is because there so few developers. I know Equinox is
focusing their energies on the web client but that shouldn't
mean all other development comes to a halt. There should be
more human resources involved so that one company focusing on
one big component shouldn't halt progress on everything else.
I know this same thing happened when KCLS first got involved
and was able to monopolize the the limited developer community
to focus on their priorities. And I have to say that I
personally attempted to bring in more developers to the fold
(as part of that KCLS initiative) so that instead of
monopolizing the limited resources, the end result would be to
expand and enrich the pool of developers. But that turned out
to be VERY hard to do. And the people I got interested in
development and who tried to get involved...all gave up -
discouraged and frustrated.</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">So, I'd
like to suggest it should be a very high priority to find a
better way to attract, on-board, and retain people who would
like to get involved in the Evergreen community on the coding
level. I don't think waiting on delivery of the web client is
an adequate strategy. <br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">Lori</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all">
<div>
<div data-smartmail="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-<wbr>=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=</div>
<div>
<div>Lori Bowen Ayre // </div>
<div>Library Technology Consultant / The Galecia
Group</div>
<div><span><span title="Call with Google Voice"><span title="Call with Google Voice">(707)
763-6869</span></span> // </span><a href="mailto:Lori.Ayre@galecia.com" target="_blank">Lori.Ayre@galecia.com</a><br>
</div>
<div>Availability: <a href="https://doodle.com/loriayre" target="_blank">https://doodle.com/loriayre</a><span> </span></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Specializing in RFID, automated materials
handling, </div>
<div><span style="font-size:12.8px">workflow
optimization, and Drupal services</span></div>
<div>
<div>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-<wbr>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 5:22 AM, Kathy
Lussier <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:klussier@masslnc.org" target="_blank">klussier@masslnc.org</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<p>Hi all,</p>
<p>Outreachy (formerly Outreach Program for Women) is
happening again. The administrators are asking if there
is any interest in participating from the Evergreen
community.</p>
<p>I'm also linking to the EOB thread from the last time
this question was raised -
<a href="http://list.evergreen-ils.org/pipermail/eg-oversight-board/2016-February/001209.html" target="_blank">http://list.evergreen-ils.org/<wbr>pipermail/eg-oversight-board/2<wbr>016-February/001209.html</a>.</p>
<p>FWIW, I stand by the comments I made in that previous
thread.</p>
<p>Kathy<br>
</p>
<div><br>
<br>
-------- Forwarded Message --------
<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<th align="RIGHT" nowrap valign="BASELINE">Subject: </th>
<td>Evergreen participation in Outreachy?</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th align="RIGHT" nowrap valign="BASELINE">Date: </th>
<td>Thu, 1 Sep 2016 14:11:16 -0700</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th align="RIGHT" nowrap valign="BASELINE">From: </th>
<td>Sarah Sharp <a href="mailto:saharabeara@gmail.com" target="_blank"><saharabeara@gmail.com></a></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th align="RIGHT" nowrap valign="BASELINE">To: </th>
<td>Kathy Lussier <a href="mailto:klussier@masslnc.org" target="_blank"><klussier@masslnc.org></a></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th align="RIGHT" nowrap valign="BASELINE">CC: </th>
<td><a href="mailto:outreachy-admins@gnome.org" target="_blank">outreachy-admins@gnome.org</a></td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<br>
<br>
<pre>Hi Kathy,
The Outreachy program is looking for organizations to participate in
round 13. Do you think Evergreen would be willing to participate again?
The round will open on September 12, and the sooner Evergreen is listed,
the more likely you'll get strong applicants.
Sarah Sharp
On Sat, Aug 27, 2016 at 4:41 PM, Sarah A Sharp <a href="mailto:sarah@thesharps.us" target="_blank"><sarah@thesharps.us></a> wrote:
> Dear coordinators and mentors,
>
> Thank you for being a part of our outreach program! The next round for
> Outreachy is scheduled to open on September 12, with an application deadline
> of October 17. Internships will run from December 6 to March 6.
>
> If your organization is interested in participating in the next round,
> please update your landing page, and let us know by September 7 if you will
> participate. Organization coordinators and mentors, please coordinate on the
> following:
>
> * Review set up information at
> <a href="https://wiki.gnome.org/Outreachy/Admin/GettingStarted" target="_blank">https://wiki.gnome.org/Outreac<wbr>hy/Admin/GettingStarted</a>
> * Secure funding for your org to sponsor at least one intern ($6,500)
> * Update your org's landing page
> * List your project ideas and recruit other mentors
> * Let us know at <a href="mailto:outreachy-admins@gnome.org" target="_blank">outreachy-admins@gnome.org</a> that your org is participating
> * Start spreading the word about your org's internships - no need to wait
> for September 12
>
> We plan on having a twitter chat about Outreachy on Wednesday, September 21,
> to spotlight the organizations that are participating, and allow orgs to
> answer any questions people have. Participation in the chat is optional, but
> if you do want to participate, being able to link to a blog post that
> describes why you're passionate about your project would help us promote
> your project.
>
> The updated resources for the upcoming round are:
>
> * <a href="https://wiki.gnome.org/Outreachy/2016/DecemberMarch" target="_blank">https://wiki.gnome.org/Outreac<wbr>hy/2016/DecemberMarch</a> - a page with a
> timeline and participating organizations listing.
>
> * <a href="https://wiki.gnome.org/Outreachy/Admin/InfoForOrgs" target="_blank">https://wiki.gnome.org/Outreac<wbr>hy/Admin/InfoForOrgs</a> and
> <a href="https://wiki.gnome.org/Outreachy/Admin/InfoForOrgs/Proposal" target="_blank">https://wiki.gnome.org/Outreac<wbr>hy/Admin/InfoForOrgs/Proposal</a> - these pages
> have motivation and information for sponsorship; you can use and customize
> the text from the Proposal page to approach companies about sponsorship
> (please do a quick check with Karen, Marina, and myself at
> <a href="mailto:outreachy-admins@gnome.org" target="_blank">outreachy-admins@gnome.org</a> alias first to make sure we coordinate any
> efforts to approach the same company).
>
> * <a href="https://wiki.gnome.org/Outreachy/Admin/GettingStarted" target="_blank">https://wiki.gnome.org/Outreac<wbr>hy/Admin/GettingStarted</a> - please review
> this page when you are updating the landing page for your organization.
>
> * <a href="https://wiki.gnome.org/Outreachy#Contracts" target="_blank">https://wiki.gnome.org/Outreac<wbr>hy#Contracts</a> - please make all people who
> volunteer as mentors in your organization aware that they will need to sign
> a contract similar to this to be a mentor in the program. Interns cannot be
> paid until their mentors sign the contract, so it is important that mentors
> sign the contract as soon as the application system opens on September 12.
>
> * <a href="https://wiki.gnome.org/Outreachy#Eligibility" target="_blank">https://wiki.gnome.org/Outreac<wbr>hy#Eligibility</a> - last year we expanded the
> Outreachy program to include underrepresented people of color
> underrepresented in tech in the U.S. Outreachy continues to be open
> internationally to women (cis and trans), trans men, and genderqueer people.
>
> Please contact Karen, Marina, and myself at <a href="mailto:outreachy-admins@gnome.org" target="_blank">outreachy-admins@gnome.org</a> alias
> if you have any questions. We hope you can join us for this round!
>
> Thanks,
> Sarah Sharp
>
</pre>
</div>
</div>
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</blockquote></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div></div><pre cols="72"><span><font color="#888888">--
Kathy Lussier
Project Coordinator
Massachusetts Library Network Cooperative
</font></span><span><a href="tel:%28508%29%20343-0128" value="+15083430128" target="_blank">(508) 343-0128</a>
<a href="mailto:klussier@masslnc.org" target="_blank">klussier@masslnc.org</a>
Twitter: <a href="http://www.twitter.com/kmlussier" target="_blank">http://www.twitter.com/kmlussi<wbr>er</a></span></pre></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div></div>
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<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature">Tim Spindler<br><a href="mailto:tjspindler@gmail.com" target="_blank">tjspindler@gmail.com</a><div><br></div><div><span style="border-collapse:collapse;font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px"><b><font size="6" color="#519230" face="Webdings"><span style="font-size:24pt;font-family:Webdings;color:rgb(81,146,48);font-weight:bold">P</span></font></b><b><font size="2" color="#519230"><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(81,146,48);font-weight:bold"> Go Green - </span></font></b><b><font size="1" color="#519230" face="Verdana"><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Verdana;color:rgb(81,146,48);font-weight:bold">Save a tree! Please don't print this e-mail unless it's really necessary.</span></font></b></p><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt"> </span></font></p></span></div></div>
</div>