<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">Thanks, Kathy. And before I read your previous posts, what I was going to offer was $500 to offset the costs of being a part of Outreachy. But I wonder if we could do it with the caveat that the intern has to have some library connection.....</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div><div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><br></div><div>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=</div><div><div>Lori Bowen Ayre // </div><div>Library Technology Consultant / The Galecia Group</div><div><span><span title="Call with Google Voice"><span title="Call with Google Voice">(707) 763-6869</span></span> // </span><a href="mailto:Lori.Ayre@galecia.com" target="_blank">Lori.Ayre@galecia.com</a><br></div><div>Availability: <a href="https://doodle.com/loriayre" target="_blank">https://doodle.com/loriayre</a><span> </span></div><div><br></div><div><a href="mailto:Lori.Ayre@galecia.com" target="_blank"></a>Specializing in RFID, automated materials handling, </div><div><span style="font-size:12.8px">workflow optimization, and Drupal services</span></div><div><div>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 11:16 AM, Kathy Lussier <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:klussier@masslnc.org" target="_blank">klussier@masslnc.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<p>Hi Lori,</p>
<p>Sorry for the delayed response. <br>
</p>
<p>Yes, I think it's always helpful for libraries to try to find
additional avenues for getting development done. However, I wanted
to clarify that I wasn't saying there isn't a real need to see
growth in the Evergreen developer community. Bringing more active
developers into the community would indeed help to alleviate
bottlenecks since more people would be working on the code. It
also provides more options to libraries, which is always a good
thing.</p>
<p>Despite the fact that recent releases include features important
to MassLNC, some of which came from our own contributors and some
of which were sponsored, we also have others that are taking
longer than we would have liked. What I was trying to say in my
earlier email, though, is that the inability to move a particular
project forward is not the same thing as saying that all
development unrelated to the web client has come to a halt. It's
frustrating when you have to struggle and wait to bring a new
feature to fruition. I know, I've been there. But the software
does continue to grow and, in addition to bringing new features in
every release, has also become more secure for patrons over the
past year.<br>
</p>
<p>Bringing this thread back to my original question, I'm not sure
participating in a short-term internship program is the right way
to grow the developer community. It's helpful in getting more new
programmers to learn how to work in an open-source community and,
from our successful GSoC experiences, it has led to new features
for the software. I think these are all great things. However, I'm
not quite sure what the hook is to keep those former interns
active in our community. If we had a mentorship program that
worked with people who are planning to or already working in
libraries, I might feel differently because there is more of an
interest to stay involved. Even if they don't stay involved, they
will continue to remember their Evergreen experience at some
future point when their libraries are exploring ILS options. <br>
</p>
<p>Bringing in more libraries might also lead to more options
because those libraries could have more technical staff who can
contribute to the project or they may create a larger market,
making it more viable for developers to create their own Evergreen
development services company. This is part of the reason for
forming the Outreach Committee - to help us get the word out about
how our libraries are succeeding with Evergreen. <br>
</p>
<p>What I need to know now, though, is if there is interest from the
EOB in pursuing Outreachy for this session. If there is interest
in funding this internship, we need to also reach out to the
community to see if anyone will volunteer to organize the program
and mentor students. If there isn't interest, I need to get back
to the Outreachy folks to let them know. <br><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">
</font></span></p><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">
<p>Kathy<br>
</p></font></span><div><div class="h5">
<br>
<div>On 09/02/2016 04:38 PM, Lori Ayre
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">Thanks
for your feedback, Kathy. Based on the release notes, it does
look like some important progress is being made. Be advised
that I was reporting what I'm hearing from people as I talk to
various Evergreen community members so it is a perception out
there even if there is some good progress being made. I
wonder if it has more to do with who's enhancements are
represented in the release notes. If a library has had
something on a wish list for a long time and they haven't made
any progress bringing it to fruition, I imagine they would be
frustrated. </div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">So
maybe part of the problem is that people don't know what they
need to do to increase the likelihood of a desired enhancement
getting the right kind of attention. That might be another
angle to focus on....is there a resource out there that
provides some guidance about the process for getting an
enhancement into the code? From my point of view, the
libraries seem to think the solution to getting an enhancement
is to hire Equinox to do it. So, it is possible that many
libraries have created their own bottleneck by relying on only
one development team. </div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">Do you
think you feel better about the progress being made with
Evergreen because of MassLNC's very active involvement in the
development and developer community? My belief is that you and
your team represent a model that others should be
replicating. Do you think that if more consortia were doing
the kinds of work you and the folks in Massachusetts are doing
in terms of documentation and coding, we wouldn't have some of
the bottlenecks?</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">Lori<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">P.S. I
don't want to give the impression I'm picking on Equinox. I
appreciate all the work they do for sure. I'm looking for
feedback because I want to a) support Evergreen and do
whatever I can to contribute to its success as I do my
consulting work and b) see if my ideas of what would make a
difference seem right to those of you in the trenches! So,
feedback appreciated online or offline. </div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"> </div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all">
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<div>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-<wbr>=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=</div>
<div>
<div>Lori Bowen Ayre // </div>
<div>Library Technology Consultant / The Galecia
Group</div>
<div><span><span title="Call with Google Voice"><span title="Call with Google Voice">(707)
763-6869</span></span> // </span><a href="mailto:Lori.Ayre@galecia.com" target="_blank">Lori.Ayre@galecia.com</a><br>
</div>
<div>Availability: <a href="https://doodle.com/loriayre" target="_blank">https://doodle.com/loriayre</a><span> </span></div>
<div><br>
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<div>Specializing in RFID, automated materials
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optimization, and Drupal services</span></div>
<div>
<div>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-<wbr>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 11:51 AM, Kathy
Lussier <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:klussier@masslnc.org" target="_blank">klussier@masslnc.org</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<p>Hi Lori,</p>
<p>We actually had a discussion at our most recent dev
meeting about building mentorship opportunities for
coders and will be continuing that discussion at the
hack-a-way in November. It's something that I know
MassLNC is very interested in seeing happen, and I'm
sure others in the community feel the same.</p>
<p>However, after working firsthand with the OPW program
and observing closely our previous efforts with GSoC,
I'm not sure those programs are the best fit for this
community. I think those programs work very well in
open-source communities where there is a lot of
volunteer interest because the software is something
that gets broad use in business or in personal life.
Those volunteers have an incentive to keep contributing
to the community after the internship because they have
a vested interest in seeing the software succeed. <br>
</p>
<p>Although most of our previous interns have certainly
loved libraries, they aren't working in them and,
therefore, have no vested interest in continuing in the
community once their internship is complete. My personal
opinion (and others may disagree with me) is that we
might have better success if we work with people who are
already working in libraries or are involved in MLS
programs. <br>
</p>
<p>I do want to take issue with the perception that "all
other development comes to a halt." I'm looking at the
draft release notes for 2.11 - <a href="https://evergreen-ils.org/documentation/release/RELEASE_NOTES_2_11.html" target="_blank">https://evergreen-ils.org/docu<wbr>mentation/release/RELEASE_NOTE<wbr>S_2_11.html</a>
and the release notes for our March 2.10 release - <a href="https://evergreen-ils.org/documentation/release/RELEASE_NOTES_2_10.html" target="_blank">https://evergreen-ils.org/docu<wbr>mentation/release/RELEASE_NOTE<wbr>S_2_10.html</a>.
This doesn't look like halted development to me.<br>
</p>
<p>In particular, I would like to point out my personal
favorite from the release notes, the activity metric for
relevance ranking (AKA statistically generated record
ratings) that I think will be a big boon to searches
performed in the catalog. This was no small project and
was completed at the same time work was being performed
on the web client. In addition to the web client,
MassLNC has projects lined up to improve cross-reference
support and to make much-needed improvements to search.
I'm sure others have projects coming down the pike as
well.</p>
<p>I'm not saying that the web client hasn't taken up a
lot of developer resources over the past couple of
years, that I'm not also concerned about growing
developer resources in the community, and that I'm not
looking forward to the day when we the web client is not
putting such a strain on our existing developer
resources. But I do want to point out that the software
is moving forward even as the web client project
proceeds.</p>
<p>Please understand that the web client is a very large
project that, while resource intensive, will ultimately
bring many benefits to Evergreen users. It's large, and
it has to be large if we want to see it done right. I
applaud Equinox and the larger developer community for
taking the necessary steps to make the big
infrastructure changes rather than bolting on small
fixes that might lead to short-term happiness, but will
not bring the larger improvement that is needed in our
software.</p>
<p>Kathy<br>
</p>
<div>
<div>
<p><br>
</p>
<div>On 09/02/2016 02:13 PM, Lori Ayre wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">Hi
Kathy and all,</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">I
just went through and read through the thread
about participating in this the last time it
came up. And I have to say it was
disheartening. Has anything been done around
the idea Grace raised - to survey people who
have attempted to get involved in coding for
Evergreen to find out what the impediments
were? I think that would be very fruitful....if
you can find them. </div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">I
have a perspective on this topic I'd like to
share. I'm working with a couple Evergreen
consortia right now and in the process I'm
talking with many other consortia on Evergreen
(and other ILSs including Koha) and there is a
consistent theme that Evergreen development is
too slow and that this is beginning to make some
consortia question whether Evergreen really
makes sense for them. It isn't uncommon for me
hear that people are frustrated that it is
taking so long to deliver the web client and
that other enhancements are being tabled until
that is done. And it starts to feel strikingly
similar to what it was like with a commercial
ILS where requests for enhancements were
ignored.</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">I
think this is because there so few developers. I
know Equinox is focusing their energies on the
web client but that shouldn't mean all other
development comes to a halt. There should be
more human resources involved so that one
company focusing on one big component shouldn't
halt progress on everything else. I know this
same thing happened when KCLS first got involved
and was able to monopolize the the limited
developer community to focus on their
priorities. And I have to say that I personally
attempted to bring in more developers to the
fold (as part of that KCLS initiative) so that
instead of monopolizing the limited resources,
the end result would be to expand and enrich the
pool of developers. But that turned out to be
VERY hard to do. And the people I got interested
in development and who tried to get
involved...all gave up - discouraged and
frustrated.</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">So,
I'd like to suggest it should be a very high
priority to find a better way to attract,
on-board, and retain people who would like to
get involved in the Evergreen community on the
coding level. I don't think waiting on delivery
of the web client is an adequate strategy. <br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">Lori</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
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<div>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-<wbr>=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=</div>
<div>
<div>Lori Bowen Ayre // </div>
<div>Library Technology Consultant
/ The Galecia Group</div>
<div><span><span title="Call with
Google Voice"><span title="Call with Google
Voice"><a href="tel:%28707%29%20763-6869" value="+17077636869" target="_blank">(707) 763-6869</a></span></span>
// </span><a href="mailto:Lori.Ayre@galecia.com" target="_blank">Lori.Ayre@galecia.com</a><br>
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<div>Availability: <a href="https://doodle.com/loriayre" target="_blank">https://doodle.com/loriayre</a><span> </span></div>
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</div>
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automated materials handling, </div>
<div><span style="font-size:12.8px">workflow
optimization, and Drupal
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<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at
5:22 AM, Kathy Lussier <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:klussier@masslnc.org" target="_blank">klussier@masslnc.org</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<p>Hi all,</p>
<p>Outreachy (formerly Outreach Program for
Women) is happening again. The
administrators are asking if there is any
interest in participating from the
Evergreen community.</p>
<p>I'm also linking to the EOB thread from
the last time this question was raised - <a href="http://list.evergreen-ils.org/pipermail/eg-oversight-board/2016-February/001209.html" target="_blank">http://list.evergreen-ils.org/<wbr>pipermail/eg-oversight-board/2<wbr>016-February/001209.html</a>.</p>
<p>FWIW, I stand by the comments I made in
that previous thread.</p>
<p>Kathy<br>
</p>
<div><br>
<br>
-------- Forwarded Message --------
<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<th align="RIGHT" nowrap valign="BASELINE">Subject: </th>
<td>Evergreen participation in
Outreachy?</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th align="RIGHT" nowrap valign="BASELINE">Date: </th>
<td>Thu, 1 Sep 2016 14:11:16 -0700</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th align="RIGHT" nowrap valign="BASELINE">From: </th>
<td>Sarah Sharp <a href="mailto:saharabeara@gmail.com" target="_blank"><saharabeara@gmail.com></a></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th align="RIGHT" nowrap valign="BASELINE">To: </th>
<td>Kathy Lussier <a href="mailto:klussier@masslnc.org" target="_blank"><klussier@masslnc.org></a></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th align="RIGHT" nowrap valign="BASELINE">CC: </th>
<td><a href="mailto:outreachy-admins@gnome.org" target="_blank">outreachy-admins@gnome.org</a></td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<br>
<br>
<pre>Hi Kathy,
The Outreachy program is looking for organizations to participate in
round 13. Do you think Evergreen would be willing to participate again?
The round will open on September 12, and the sooner Evergreen is listed,
the more likely you'll get strong applicants.
Sarah Sharp
On Sat, Aug 27, 2016 at 4:41 PM, Sarah A Sharp <a href="mailto:sarah@thesharps.us" target="_blank"><sarah@thesharps.us></a> wrote:
> Dear coordinators and mentors,
>
> Thank you for being a part of our outreach program! The next round for
> Outreachy is scheduled to open on September 12, with an application deadline
> of October 17. Internships will run from December 6 to March 6.
>
> If your organization is interested in participating in the next round,
> please update your landing page, and let us know by September 7 if you will
> participate. Organization coordinators and mentors, please coordinate on the
> following:
>
> * Review set up information at
> <a href="https://wiki.gnome.org/Outreachy/Admin/GettingStarted" target="_blank">https://wiki.gnome.org/Outreac<wbr>hy/Admin/GettingStarted</a>
> * Secure funding for your org to sponsor at least one intern ($6,500)
> * Update your org's landing page
> * List your project ideas and recruit other mentors
> * Let us know at <a href="mailto:outreachy-admins@gnome.org" target="_blank">outreachy-admins@gnome.org</a> that your org is participating
> * Start spreading the word about your org's internships - no need to wait
> for September 12
>
> We plan on having a twitter chat about Outreachy on Wednesday, September 21,
> to spotlight the organizations that are participating, and allow orgs to
> answer any questions people have. Participation in the chat is optional, but
> if you do want to participate, being able to link to a blog post that
> describes why you're passionate about your project would help us promote
> your project.
>
> The updated resources for the upcoming round are:
>
> * <a href="https://wiki.gnome.org/Outreachy/2016/DecemberMarch" target="_blank">https://wiki.gnome.org/Outreac<wbr>hy/2016/DecemberMarch</a> - a page with a
> timeline and participating organizations listing.
>
> * <a href="https://wiki.gnome.org/Outreachy/Admin/InfoForOrgs" target="_blank">https://wiki.gnome.org/Outreac<wbr>hy/Admin/InfoForOrgs</a> and
> <a href="https://wiki.gnome.org/Outreachy/Admin/InfoForOrgs/Proposal" target="_blank">https://wiki.gnome.org/Outreac<wbr>hy/Admin/InfoForOrgs/Proposal</a> - these pages
> have motivation and information for sponsorship; you can use and customize
> the text from the Proposal page to approach companies about sponsorship
> (please do a quick check with Karen, Marina, and myself at
> <a href="mailto:outreachy-admins@gnome.org" target="_blank">outreachy-admins@gnome.org</a> alias first to make sure we coordinate any
> efforts to approach the same company).
>
> * <a href="https://wiki.gnome.org/Outreachy/Admin/GettingStarted" target="_blank">https://wiki.gnome.org/Outreac<wbr>hy/Admin/GettingStarted</a> - please review
> this page when you are updating the landing page for your organization.
>
> * <a href="https://wiki.gnome.org/Outreachy#Contracts" target="_blank">https://wiki.gnome.org/Outreac<wbr>hy#Contracts</a> - please make all people who
> volunteer as mentors in your organization aware that they will need to sign
> a contract similar to this to be a mentor in the program. Interns cannot be
> paid until their mentors sign the contract, so it is important that mentors
> sign the contract as soon as the application system opens on September 12.
>
> * <a href="https://wiki.gnome.org/Outreachy#Eligibility" target="_blank">https://wiki.gnome.org/Outreac<wbr>hy#Eligibility</a> - last year we expanded the
> Outreachy program to include underrepresented people of color
> underrepresented in tech in the U.S. Outreachy continues to be open
> internationally to women (cis and trans), trans men, and genderqueer people.
>
> Please contact Karen, Marina, and myself at <a href="mailto:outreachy-admins@gnome.org" target="_blank">outreachy-admins@gnome.org</a> alias
> if you have any questions. We hope you can join us for this round!
>
> Thanks,
> Sarah Sharp
>
</pre>
</div>
</div>
______________________________<wbr>_________________
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</blockquote></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div></div><pre cols="72"><span><font color="#888888">--
Kathy Lussier
Project Coordinator
Massachusetts Library Network Cooperative
</font></span><span><a href="tel:%28508%29%20343-0128" value="+15083430128" target="_blank">(508) 343-0128</a>
<a href="mailto:klussier@masslnc.org" target="_blank">klussier@masslnc.org</a>
Twitter: <a href="http://www.twitter.com/kmlussier" target="_blank">http://www.twitter.com/kmlussi<wbr>er</a></span></pre></div></blockquote></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<pre cols="72">--
Kathy Lussier
Project Coordinator
Massachusetts Library Network Cooperative
<a href="tel:%28508%29%20343-0128" value="+15083430128" target="_blank">(508) 343-0128</a>
<a href="mailto:klussier@masslnc.org" target="_blank">klussier@masslnc.org</a>
Twitter: <a href="http://www.twitter.com/kmlussier" target="_blank">http://www.twitter.com/<wbr>kmlussier</a></pre></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>