<div dir="ltr"><div><div>I'm with Kathy on this.<br><br>>>Bringing this thread back to my original question, I'm
not sure participating in a short-term internship
program is the right way to grow the developer
community. It's helpful in getting more new programmers
to learn how to work in an open-source community and,
from our successful GSoC experiences, it has led to new
features for the software. I think these are all great
things. However, I'm not quite sure what the hook is to
keep those former interns active in our community. If we
had a mentorship program that worked with people who are
planning to or already working in libraries, I might
feel differently because there is more of an interest to
stay involved. Even if they don't stay involved, they
will continue to remember their Evergreen experience at
some future point when their libraries are exploring ILS
options.<<<br><br></div>It's always nice to get more people involved on any level, and I'm certainly not opposed to internship opportunities, but I also think that a mentorship problem would be much more valuable if we can find a way to make that happen.<br><br></div>Terran<br><br><br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div><div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr">Terran McCanna <br>PINES Program Manager <br>Georgia Public Library Service <br>1800 Century Place, Suite 150 <br>Atlanta, GA 30345 <br>404-235-7138 <br><a href="mailto:tmccanna@georgialibraries.org" target="_blank">tmccanna@georgialibraries.org</a> <br><br></div></div></div>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Sep 8, 2016 at 11:43 AM, Kathy Lussier <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:klussier@masslnc.org" target="_blank">klussier@masslnc.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<p>Thank you Lori. That's very generous.</p>
<p>I'll defer to the current EOB members to the question of whether
they want to pursue this. However, as I mentioned, if we do move
forward, we need to make the decision fairly soon since there are
several other steps that need to be taken to determine if the
community has volunteers interested in making this happen.</p>
<p>Kathy<br>
</p>
<br>
<div>On 09/07/2016 03:23 PM, Lori Ayre
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">Thanks,
Kathy. And before I read your previous posts, what I was
going to offer was $500 to offset the costs of being a part of
Outreachy. But I wonder if we could do it with the caveat
that the intern has to have some library connection.....</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all">
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<div>
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<div><br>
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<div>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-<wbr>=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=</div>
<div>
<div>Lori Bowen Ayre // </div>
<div>Library Technology Consultant / The Galecia
Group</div>
<div><span><span title="Call with Google Voice"><span title="Call with Google Voice">(707)
763-6869</span></span> // </span><a href="mailto:Lori.Ayre@galecia.com" target="_blank">Lori.Ayre@galecia.com</a><br>
</div>
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<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 11:16 AM, Kathy
Lussier <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:klussier@masslnc.org" target="_blank">klussier@masslnc.org</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<p>Hi Lori,</p>
<p>Sorry for the delayed response. <br>
</p>
<p>Yes, I think it's always helpful for libraries to try
to find additional avenues for getting development done.
However, I wanted to clarify that I wasn't saying there
isn't a real need to see growth in the Evergreen
developer community. Bringing more active developers
into the community would indeed help to alleviate
bottlenecks since more people would be working on the
code. It also provides more options to libraries, which
is always a good thing.</p>
<p>Despite the fact that recent releases include features
important to MassLNC, some of which came from our own
contributors and some of which were sponsored, we also
have others that are taking longer than we would have
liked. What I was trying to say in my earlier email,
though, is that the inability to move a particular
project forward is not the same thing as saying that all
development unrelated to the web client has come to a
halt. It's frustrating when you have to struggle and
wait to bring a new feature to fruition. I know, I've
been there. But the software does continue to grow and,
in addition to bringing new features in every release,
has also become more secure for patrons over the past
year.<br>
</p>
<p>Bringing this thread back to my original question, I'm
not sure participating in a short-term internship
program is the right way to grow the developer
community. It's helpful in getting more new programmers
to learn how to work in an open-source community and,
from our successful GSoC experiences, it has led to new
features for the software. I think these are all great
things. However, I'm not quite sure what the hook is to
keep those former interns active in our community. If we
had a mentorship program that worked with people who are
planning to or already working in libraries, I might
feel differently because there is more of an interest to
stay involved. Even if they don't stay involved, they
will continue to remember their Evergreen experience at
some future point when their libraries are exploring ILS
options. <br>
</p>
<p>Bringing in more libraries might also lead to more
options because those libraries could have more
technical staff who can contribute to the project or
they may create a larger market, making it more viable
for developers to create their own Evergreen development
services company. This is part of the reason for forming
the Outreach Committee - to help us get the word out
about how our libraries are succeeding with Evergreen. <br>
</p>
<p>What I need to know now, though, is if there is
interest from the EOB in pursuing Outreachy for this
session. If there is interest in funding this
internship, we need to also reach out to the community
to see if anyone will volunteer to organize the program
and mentor students. If there isn't interest, I need to
get back to the Outreachy folks to let them know. <br>
<span><font color="#888888"> </font></span></p>
<span><font color="#888888">
<p>Kathy<br>
</p>
</font></span>
<div>
<div> <br>
<div>On 09/02/2016 04:38 PM, Lori Ayre wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">Thanks
for your feedback, Kathy. Based on the release
notes, it does look like some important progress
is being made. Be advised that I was reporting
what I'm hearing from people as I talk to
various Evergreen community members so it is a
perception out there even if there is some good
progress being made. I wonder if it has more to
do with who's enhancements are represented in
the release notes. If a library has had
something on a wish list for a long time and
they haven't made any progress bringing it to
fruition, I imagine they would be frustrated. </div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">So
maybe part of the problem is that people don't
know what they need to do to increase the
likelihood of a desired enhancement getting the
right kind of attention. That might be another
angle to focus on....is there a resource out
there that provides some guidance about the
process for getting an enhancement into the
code? From my point of view, the libraries seem
to think the solution to getting an enhancement
is to hire Equinox to do it. So, it is possible
that many libraries have created their own
bottleneck by relying on only one development
team. </div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">Do
you think you feel better about the progress
being made with Evergreen because of MassLNC's
very active involvement in the development and
developer community? My belief is that you and
your team represent a model that others should
be replicating. Do you think that if more
consortia were doing the kinds of work you and
the folks in Massachusetts are doing in terms of
documentation and coding, we wouldn't have some
of the bottlenecks?</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">Lori<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">P.S.
I don't want to give the impression I'm picking
on Equinox. I appreciate all the work they do
for sure. I'm looking for feedback because I
want to a) support Evergreen and do whatever I
can to contribute to its success as I do my
consulting work and b) see if my ideas of what
would make a difference seem right to those of
you in the trenches! So, feedback appreciated
online or offline. </div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"> </div>
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<div>Lori Bowen Ayre // </div>
<div>Library Technology Consultant
/ The Galecia Group</div>
<div><span><span title="Call with
Google Voice"><span title="Call with Google
Voice"><a href="tel:%28707%29%20763-6869" value="+17077636869" target="_blank">(707) 763-6869</a></span></span>
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<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at
11:51 AM, Kathy Lussier <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:klussier@masslnc.org" target="_blank">klussier@masslnc.org</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<p>Hi Lori,</p>
<p>We actually had a discussion at our most
recent dev meeting about building
mentorship opportunities for coders and
will be continuing that discussion at the
hack-a-way in November. It's something
that I know MassLNC is very interested in
seeing happen, and I'm sure others in the
community feel the same.</p>
<p>However, after working firsthand with the
OPW program and observing closely our
previous efforts with GSoC, I'm not sure
those programs are the best fit for this
community. I think those programs work
very well in open-source communities where
there is a lot of volunteer interest
because the software is something that
gets broad use in business or in personal
life. Those volunteers have an incentive
to keep contributing to the community
after the internship because they have a
vested interest in seeing the software
succeed. <br>
</p>
<p>Although most of our previous interns
have certainly loved libraries, they
aren't working in them and, therefore,
have no vested interest in continuing in
the community once their internship is
complete. My personal opinion (and others
may disagree with me) is that we might
have better success if we work with people
who are already working in libraries or
are involved in MLS programs. <br>
</p>
<p>I do want to take issue with the
perception that "all other development
comes to a halt." I'm looking at the draft
release notes for 2.11 - <a href="https://evergreen-ils.org/documentation/release/RELEASE_NOTES_2_11.html" target="_blank">https://evergreen-ils.org/docu<wbr>mentation/release/RELEASE_NOTE<wbr>S_2_11.html</a>
and the release notes for our March 2.10
release - <a href="https://evergreen-ils.org/documentation/release/RELEASE_NOTES_2_10.html" target="_blank">https://evergreen-ils.org/docu<wbr>mentation/release/RELEASE_NOTE<wbr>S_2_10.html</a>.
This doesn't look like halted development
to me.<br>
</p>
<p>In particular, I would like to point out
my personal favorite from the release
notes, the activity metric for relevance
ranking (AKA statistically generated
record ratings) that I think will be a big
boon to searches performed in the catalog.
This was no small project and was
completed at the same time work was being
performed on the web client. In addition
to the web client, MassLNC has projects
lined up to improve cross-reference
support and to make much-needed
improvements to search. I'm sure others
have projects coming down the pike as
well.</p>
<p>I'm not saying that the web client hasn't
taken up a lot of developer resources over
the past couple of years, that I'm not
also concerned about growing developer
resources in the community, and that I'm
not looking forward to the day when we the
web client is not putting such a strain on
our existing developer resources. But I do
want to point out that the software is
moving forward even as the web client
project proceeds.</p>
<p>Please understand that the web client is
a very large project that, while resource
intensive, will ultimately bring many
benefits to Evergreen users. It's large,
and it has to be large if we want to see
it done right. I applaud Equinox and the
larger developer community for taking the
necessary steps to make the big
infrastructure changes rather than bolting
on small fixes that might lead to
short-term happiness, but will not bring
the larger improvement that is needed in
our software.</p>
<p>Kathy<br>
</p>
<div>
<div>
<p><br>
</p>
<div>On 09/02/2016 02:13 PM, Lori Ayre
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">Hi
Kathy and all,</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">I
just went through and read through
the thread about participating in
this the last time it came up.
And I have to say it was
disheartening. Has anything been
done around the idea Grace raised
- to survey people who have
attempted to get involved in
coding for Evergreen to find out
what the impediments were? I
think that would be very
fruitful....if you can find them.
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">I
have a perspective on this topic
I'd like to share. I'm working
with a couple Evergreen consortia
right now and in the process I'm
talking with many other consortia
on Evergreen (and other ILSs
including Koha) and there is a
consistent theme that Evergreen
development is too slow and that
this is beginning to make some
consortia question whether
Evergreen really makes sense for
them. It isn't uncommon for me
hear that people are frustrated
that it is taking so long to
deliver the web client and that
other enhancements are being
tabled until that is done. And it
starts to feel strikingly similar
to what it was like with a
commercial ILS where requests for
enhancements were ignored.</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">I
think this is because there so few
developers. I know Equinox is
focusing their energies on the web
client but that shouldn't mean all
other development comes to a
halt. There should be more human
resources involved so that one
company focusing on one big
component shouldn't halt progress
on everything else. I know this
same thing happened when KCLS
first got involved and was able to
monopolize the the limited
developer community to focus on
their priorities. And I have to
say that I personally attempted to
bring in more developers to the
fold (as part of that KCLS
initiative) so that instead of
monopolizing the limited
resources, the end result would be
to expand and enrich the pool of
developers. But that turned out
to be VERY hard to do. And the
people I got interested in
development and who tried to get
involved...all gave up -
discouraged and frustrated.</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">So,
I'd like to suggest it should be a
very high priority to find a
better way to attract, on-board,
and retain people who would like
to get involved in the Evergreen
community on the coding level. I
don't think waiting on delivery of
the web client is an adequate
strategy. <br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">Lori</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
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<div>
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// </div>
<div>Library
Technology
Consultant / The
Galecia Group</div>
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with Google
Voice"><span title="Call
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<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Sep
2, 2016 at 5:22 AM, Kathy Lussier
<span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:klussier@masslnc.org" target="_blank">klussier@masslnc.org</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<p>Hi all,</p>
<p>Outreachy (formerly
Outreach Program for Women)
is happening again. The
administrators are asking if
there is any interest in
participating from the
Evergreen community.</p>
<p>I'm also linking to the EOB
thread from the last time
this question was raised - <a href="http://list.evergreen-ils.org/pipermail/eg-oversight-board/2016-February/001209.html" target="_blank">http://list.evergreen-ils.org/<wbr>pipermail/eg-oversight-board/2<wbr>016-February/001209.html</a>.</p>
<p>FWIW, I stand by the
comments I made in that
previous thread.</p>
<p>Kathy<br>
</p>
<div><br>
<br>
-------- Forwarded Message
--------
<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<th align="RIGHT" nowrap valign="BASELINE">Subject:
</th>
<td>Evergreen
participation in
Outreachy?</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th align="RIGHT" nowrap valign="BASELINE">Date:
</th>
<td>Thu, 1 Sep 2016
14:11:16 -0700</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th align="RIGHT" nowrap valign="BASELINE">From:
</th>
<td>Sarah Sharp <a href="mailto:saharabeara@gmail.com" target="_blank"><saharabeara@gmail.com></a></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th align="RIGHT" nowrap valign="BASELINE">To:
</th>
<td>Kathy Lussier <a href="mailto:klussier@masslnc.org" target="_blank"><klussier@masslnc.org></a></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th align="RIGHT" nowrap valign="BASELINE">CC:
</th>
<td><a href="mailto:outreachy-admins@gnome.org" target="_blank">outreachy-admins@gnome.org</a></td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<br>
<br>
<pre>Hi Kathy,
The Outreachy program is looking for organizations to participate in
round 13. Do you think Evergreen would be willing to participate again?
The round will open on September 12, and the sooner Evergreen is listed,
the more likely you'll get strong applicants.
Sarah Sharp
On Sat, Aug 27, 2016 at 4:41 PM, Sarah A Sharp <a href="mailto:sarah@thesharps.us" target="_blank"><sarah@thesharps.us></a> wrote:
> Dear coordinators and mentors,
>
> Thank you for being a part of our outreach program! The next round for
> Outreachy is scheduled to open on September 12, with an application deadline
> of October 17. Internships will run from December 6 to March 6.
>
> If your organization is interested in participating in the next round,
> please update your landing page, and let us know by September 7 if you will
> participate. Organization coordinators and mentors, please coordinate on the
> following:
>
> * Review set up information at
> <a href="https://wiki.gnome.org/Outreachy/Admin/GettingStarted" target="_blank">https://wiki.gnome.org/Outreac<wbr>hy/Admin/GettingStarted</a>
> * Secure funding for your org to sponsor at least one intern ($6,500)
> * Update your org's landing page
> * List your project ideas and recruit other mentors
> * Let us know at <a href="mailto:outreachy-admins@gnome.org" target="_blank">outreachy-admins@gnome.org</a> that your org is participating
> * Start spreading the word about your org's internships - no need to wait
> for September 12
>
> We plan on having a twitter chat about Outreachy on Wednesday, September 21,
> to spotlight the organizations that are participating, and allow orgs to
> answer any questions people have. Participation in the chat is optional, but
> if you do want to participate, being able to link to a blog post that
> describes why you're passionate about your project would help us promote
> your project.
>
> The updated resources for the upcoming round are:
>
> * <a href="https://wiki.gnome.org/Outreachy/2016/DecemberMarch" target="_blank">https://wiki.gnome.org/Outreac<wbr>hy/2016/DecemberMarch</a> - a page with a
> timeline and participating organizations listing.
>
> * <a href="https://wiki.gnome.org/Outreachy/Admin/InfoForOrgs" target="_blank">https://wiki.gnome.org/Outreac<wbr>hy/Admin/InfoForOrgs</a> and
> <a href="https://wiki.gnome.org/Outreachy/Admin/InfoForOrgs/Proposal" target="_blank">https://wiki.gnome.org/Outreac<wbr>hy/Admin/InfoForOrgs/Proposal</a> - these pages
> have motivation and information for sponsorship; you can use and customize
> the text from the Proposal page to approach companies about sponsorship
> (please do a quick check with Karen, Marina, and myself at
> <a href="mailto:outreachy-admins@gnome.org" target="_blank">outreachy-admins@gnome.org</a> alias first to make sure we coordinate any
> efforts to approach the same company).
>
> * <a href="https://wiki.gnome.org/Outreachy/Admin/GettingStarted" target="_blank">https://wiki.gnome.org/Outreac<wbr>hy/Admin/GettingStarted</a> - please review
> this page when you are updating the landing page for your organization.
>
> * <a href="https://wiki.gnome.org/Outreachy#Contracts" target="_blank">https://wiki.gnome.org/Outreac<wbr>hy#Contracts</a> - please make all people who
> volunteer as mentors in your organization aware that they will need to sign
> a contract similar to this to be a mentor in the program. Interns cannot be
> paid until their mentors sign the contract, so it is important that mentors
> sign the contract as soon as the application system opens on September 12.
>
> * <a href="https://wiki.gnome.org/Outreachy#Eligibility" target="_blank">https://wiki.gnome.org/Outreac<wbr>hy#Eligibility</a> - last year we expanded the
> Outreachy program to include underrepresented people of color
> underrepresented in tech in the U.S. Outreachy continues to be open
> internationally to women (cis and trans), trans men, and genderqueer people.
>
> Please contact Karen, Marina, and myself at <a href="mailto:outreachy-admins@gnome.org" target="_blank">outreachy-admins@gnome.org</a> alias
> if you have any questions. We hope you can join us for this round!
>
> Thanks,
> Sarah Sharp
>
</pre>
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</blockquote>
</div></div><pre cols="72"><span><font color="#888888">--
Kathy Lussier
Project Coordinator
Massachusetts Library Network Cooperative
</font></span><span><a href="tel:%28508%29%20343-0128" value="+15083430128" target="_blank">(508) 343-0128</a>
<a href="mailto:klussier@masslnc.org" target="_blank">klussier@masslnc.org</a>
Twitter: <a href="http://www.twitter.com/kmlussier" target="_blank">http://www.twitter.com/kmlussi<wbr>er</a></span></pre></div></blockquote></div><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">
</font></span></div><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">
</font></span></blockquote><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">
<pre cols="72">--
Kathy Lussier
Project Coordinator
Massachusetts Library Network Cooperative
<a href="tel:%28508%29%20343-0128" value="+15083430128" target="_blank">(508) 343-0128</a>
<a href="mailto:klussier@masslnc.org" target="_blank">klussier@masslnc.org</a>
Twitter: <a href="http://www.twitter.com/kmlussier" target="_blank">http://www.twitter.com/kmlussi<wbr>er</a></pre></font></span></div></div></div></blockquote></div><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">
</font></span></div><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">
</font></span></blockquote><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">
<pre cols="72">--
Kathy Lussier
Project Coordinator
Massachusetts Library Network Cooperative
<a href="tel:%28508%29%20343-0128" value="+15083430128" target="_blank">(508) 343-0128</a>
<a href="mailto:klussier@masslnc.org" target="_blank">klussier@masslnc.org</a>
Twitter: <a href="http://www.twitter.com/kmlussier" target="_blank">http://www.twitter.com/<wbr>kmlussier</a></pre></font></span></div><br>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
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