<div><div dir="auto">Our workflow is like Elizabeth’s. Our catalogers search at the consortium level always. They add their items if they find the records they need, and email us to get them a record from OCLC if what they need isn’t present. Those new records are in our system the next day (unless original cataloging was required), so they can add their items then. </div></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Oct 5, 2022 at 11:00 AM Thomsen, Elizabeth via Evergreen-catalogers <<a href="mailto:evergreen-catalogers@list.evergreen-ils.org">evergreen-catalogers@list.evergreen-ils.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Thanks, Elaine, it's helpful to understand your workflow, that's the part I was missing!  <div><br></div><div>Here we instruct libraries to search at the consortium level for a matching title when inputting.  Most inputting is adding the library's first item(s) for new material, which means looking for existing records that are already in the consortium but not in their library, so searching the local collection first and then the consortium seems like an extra step -- the opposite of your workflow.  And of course some inputting is adding more item(s) to titles they already own (which they may or may not know beforehand) in which case starting by searching the library is more efficient.</div><div><br></div><div>But I'm sure there are other differences related to size and workflow that are relevant here, and it looks like we need options for how to handle these empty records, which could include not having them appear possibly with a checkbox to include them in a search, have them appear only at the consortium level, have them appear at all levels but with color-coding to make the easy to ignore, or maybe workstation or user settings so catalogers would see them and public service people wouldn't.</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Oct 5, 2022 at 10:19 AM Elaine Hardy <<a href="mailto:ehardy@georgialibraries.org" target="_blank">ehardy@georgialibraries.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">PINES catalogers are instructed to first search their library system so that they find any existing matching records within their system. And to then search all of PINES. Having empty, potentially matching records show up in this search means they don't have to do that subsequent all PINES search.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">Having the color coding for bib records hidden from the public OPAC meant that public services staff knew to ignore those records when assisting patrons. It was an extremely helpful tool for all staff since it indicated to public services staff the record was likely not available to patrons and to cataloging staff that they might need to explore why it wasn't visible. We got a lot of complaints from public service and cataloging staff when the color coding was dropped. And requests still for it to return.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">As to explaining to public service staff. I tell them that it helps their colleagues do their job and they understand that and know to ignore records with 0/0 holdings.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">We also run a script to delete empty bibs in the database for more than 30 days. We also recently cleaned up empty records that had creeped in because of an error in the script.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"><br clear="all"></div><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><br><div dir="ltr" style="margin-left:0pt"><table style="border:medium none;border-collapse:collapse"><colgroup><col width="94"><col width="530"></colgroup><tbody><tr style="height:0pt"><td style="vertical-align:top;padding:5pt;text-align:right"><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.2;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;font-weight:400;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"><span style="border:none;display:inline-block;overflow:hidden;width:75px;height:75px"><img src="https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/bpjlHkZIWY-VYFVLNA9ro5_6N4c7AxtzAPQhhzTKXaM1luxXME10aRo56LngwgoMXQ-OptUpmewQo8ljPZNpd7H2nZx09Xns4m_RVJ6D7NoWhha3cHDFxXExYWy2c7E0qfs3M5WC" style="margin-left:0px;margin-top:0px" width="75" height="75"></span></span></p></td><td style="vertical-align:top;padding:5pt;text-align:left"><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.2;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;margin-left:9pt"><font size="1"><span style="font-family:Verdana;color:rgb(30,67,155);background-color:transparent;font-weight:700;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">J. Elaine Hardy</span><span style="font-family:Verdana;color:rgb(30,67,155);background-color:transparent;font-weight:400;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">,</span><span style="font-family:Verdana;color:rgb(30,67,155);background-color:transparent;font-weight:700;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"> </span><span style="font-family:Verdana;color:rgb(30,67,155);background-color:transparent;font-weight:400;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">PINES and Collaborative Projects Manager</span></font></p><hr style="margin-left:0px;margin-right:auto"><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.2;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;margin-left:9pt"><font size="1"><span style="font-family:Verdana;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;font-weight:700;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"></span><span style="font-family:Verdana;color:rgb(30,67,155);background-color:transparent;font-weight:700;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">Georgia Public Library Service</span></font></p><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.2;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;margin-left:9pt"><font size="1"><span style="font-family:Verdana;color:rgb(30,67,155);background-color:transparent;font-weight:400;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"><a href="https://www.google.com/maps/search/2872+Woodcock+Blvd.,+Suite+250+%7C+Atlanta,+GA+30341?entry=gmail&source=g">2872 Woodcock Blvd., Suite 250 | Atlanta, GA 30341</a></span></font></p><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.2;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;margin-left:9pt"><font size="1"><span style="font-family:Verdana;color:rgb(30,67,155);background-color:rgb(255,255,255);font-weight:400;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">(404) 235-7128</span><span style="font-family:Verdana;color:rgb(30,67,155);background-color:transparent;font-weight:400;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"> | <a href="mailto:ehardy@georgialibraries.org" target="_blank">ehardy@georgialibraries.org</a></span></font></p><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.2;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;margin-left:9pt"><font size="1"><span style="font-family:Verdana;color:rgb(30,67,155);background-color:transparent;font-weight:400;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">(404) 548-4241 | Cell<br></span></font></p><br><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.2;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;margin-left:9pt"><a href="https://www.facebook.com/georgialibraries" style="text-decoration:none" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Verdana;color:rgb(17,85,204);background-color:transparent;font-weight:400;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:underline;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"><span style="border:none;display:inline-block;overflow:hidden;width:36px;height:36px"><img src="https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/wjWdJl8zhUVb20FdmA0VXc4J9O5c0fKk1TTRabfYTrAZPyt8gtuVsgSIP_gPDaSD0mpvMRmzVxbpurZbyAzV1VrEHAKJUAZkUeSVH-CLb0KFkL6pHU_v09gN6QRKIRtUq1iR-Zbn" style="margin-left:0px;margin-top:0px" width="36" height="36"></span></span></a><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;font-weight:400;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">  </span><a href="https://www.twitter.com/georgialibs" style="text-decoration:none" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;color:rgb(17,85,204);background-color:transparent;font-weight:400;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:underline;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"><span style="border:none;display:inline-block;overflow:hidden;width:35px;height:35px"><img src="https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/9dDBepVWGW2bIMC615q1KfmBTkk04sQENYf3r3X4IP5eYttphc5NQh1IZ4vsfVKxNeDquYf251jJKz3GP8Gs0LSo5nPIlC1gZsTcmFlhGRuaM0RSbHJXxpqqwAVJgjcKud5Jzgop" style="margin-left:0px;margin-top:0px" width="35" height="35"></span></span></a><a href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ng into these, or if the angular catalog is making them more prominent, displaying them at the top of search results, but I need to write up an FAQ for our librarians that I can point at every time we get another complaint. I'd like to say something more detailed than "it's a feature, not a bug."</div><div><br></div><div>Mary</div><div><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Oct 4, 2022 at 2:17 PM Erica Rohlfs <<a href="mailto:erica.rohlfs@equinoxoli.org" target="_blank">erica.rohlfs@equinoxoli.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Hi Mary,</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">I don't know if I can be of much help. I see that you're already aware of <a href="https://bugs.launchpad.net/evergreen/+bug/1966342" target="_blank">Wish List - Add color coding when there are no holdings</a> so I'm just listing it here for others who are following the discussion. I agree with Elaine that having the empty bib records, a.k.a. shadowed records color coded was once a very helpful feature. I also agree that some mechanism to filter out the truly empty bibs would be a good feature, too. Some of the confusion also stems from the fact that, if there is an associated 856 subfield 9 on the record, it's not considered empty. This is one of the factors that consortia consider when removing the e-resources from the catalog (only one factor, I know there are many others). Some libraries do filter on <span style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">Group Formats/Editions to consolidate results, where possible. But, this doesn't answer the question of why the records show up in the results :-) You've noted that there are catalogers' considerations for retrieving empty bibs. Really, the only circulation reason that stands out in my mind is that, with the permission to override </span><span style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">HIGH_LEVEL_HOLD_HAS_NO_COPIES</span><span style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">, staff can place holds on empty bibs. I don't know how many use cases there are for it, maybe Acquisitions and Collections Librarians in the community have specific use cases. I'd love to learn more about them. </span></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><br></span></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">Thank You,</span></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">Erica</span></div><br></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Oct 4, 2022 at 1:27 PM Mary Llewellyn via Evergreen-catalogers <<a href="mailto:evergreen-catalogers@list.evergreen-ils.org" target="_blank">evergreen-catalogers@list.evergreen-ils.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div>Hi all,</div><div><br></div><div>I could use some advice. <br></div><div><br></div><div>We have our catalogers use CONS as their search library so they can find all records, with and without items, when they need to catalog their own items.</div><div><br></div><div>However, the public services staff use their own library as a search library, and that's where we run into staff confusion.</div><div><br></div><div>When they run into a bib record with no items, they report that to us as an error. 
<div>When they are searching in their own library, they expect to only retrieve records with their items.</div><div><br></div>

 I'm trying to come up with a succinct explanation for why they see those records. I do assure them that their public does not see the "empty" records, that they only appear in the staff catalog. Can someone share with me the official reason for why these records display?</div><div><br></div><div>I wish there were some way to prevent them from coming up in their searches.<br></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div><div><div><div><div>Mary Llewellyn<br></div>Database Manager<br></div>Bibliomation, Inc.<br></div><a href="https://www.google.com/maps/search/24+Wooster+Ave.+Waterbury,+CT+06708?entry=gmail&source=g">24 Wooster Ave.</a><br></div><a href="https://www.google.com/maps/search/24+Wooster+Ave.+Waterbury,+CT+06708?entry=gmail&source=g">Waterbury, CT 06708</a><br></div><a href="mailto:mllewell@biblio.org" target="_blank">mllewell@biblio.org</a><br></div></div></div>
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</blockquote></div><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div><font size="2" face="arial, sans-serif">Erica Rohlfs</font><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">, MLIS, PMP</span></div><div><font face="arial, sans-serif"><font size="2">Senior </font>Implementation Project Manager</font></div><div><font size="2" face="arial, sans-serif">Equinox Open Library Initiative</font></div><div><font face="arial, sans-serif"><a href="mailto:erica.rohlfs@equinoxOLI.org" target="_blank">erica.rohlfs@equinoxOLI.org</a><br></font></div><div><font size="2" face="arial, sans-serif"><a href="https://equinoxOLI.org" target="_blank">https://equinoxOLI.org</a></font></div><div><font face="arial, sans-serif">phone: 877-OPEN-ILS (673-6457)<br></font></div><div><font face="arial, sans-serif">direct: 770-709-5572</font></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
</blockquote></div><br clear="all"><br>-- <br><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div><div><div><div><div>Mary Llewellyn<br></div>Database Manager<br></div>Bibliomation, Inc.<br></div><a href="https://www.google.com/maps/search/24+Wooster+Ave.+Waterbury,+CT+06708?entry=gmail&source=g">24 Wooster Ave.</a><br></div><a href="https://www.google.com/maps/search/24+Wooster+Ave.+Waterbury,+CT+06708?entry=gmail&source=g">Waterbury, CT 06708</a><br></div><a href="mailto:mllewell@biblio.org" target="_blank">mllewell@biblio.org</a><br></div></div>
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Evergreen-catalogers mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Evergreen-catalogers@list.evergreen-ils.org" target="_blank">Evergreen-catalogers@list.evergreen-ils.org</a><br>
<a href="http://list.evergreen-ils.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/evergreen-catalogers" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://list.evergreen-ils.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/evergreen-catalogers</a><br>
</blockquote></div><br clear="all"></blockquote></div></blockquote></div><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr">Elizabeth B. Thomsen <div>Member Services Manager</div><div>NOBLE: North of Boston Library Exchange </div><div>Danvers, Mass.</div><div><a href="http://www.noblenet.org" target="_blank">www.noblenet.org</a></div></div></div></div></div>
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Evergreen-catalogers mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Evergreen-catalogers@list.evergreen-ils.org" target="_blank">Evergreen-catalogers@list.evergreen-ils.org</a><br>
<a href="http://list.evergreen-ils.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/evergreen-catalogers" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://list.evergreen-ils.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/evergreen-catalogers</a><br>
</blockquote></div>
</blockquote></div><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr">Elizabeth B. Thomsen <div>Member Services Manager</div><div>NOBLE: North of Boston Library Exchange </div><div>Danvers, Mass.</div><div><a href="http://www.noblenet.org" target="_blank">www.noblenet.org</a></div></div></div></div></div>
_______________________________________________<br>
Evergreen-catalogers mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Evergreen-catalogers@list.evergreen-ils.org" target="_blank">Evergreen-catalogers@list.evergreen-ils.org</a><br>
<a href="http://list.evergreen-ils.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/evergreen-catalogers" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://list.evergreen-ils.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/evergreen-catalogers</a><br>
</blockquote></div></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div><div><div><div>Mary Llewellyn<br></div>Database Manager<br></div>Bibliomation, Inc.<br></div>24 Wooster Ave.<br></div>Waterbury, CT 06708<br></div><a href="mailto:mllewell@biblio.org" target="_blank">mllewell@biblio.org</a><br></div></div>