[Evergreen-governance-l] FW: Be sure to do this
Amy Terlaga
terlaga at biblio.org
Tue Aug 31 16:43:14 EDT 2010
Hmm, I'm not sure how that would work exactly:
>Someone has to make a determination that new development "X" should be
added to the core of Evergreen.
Basically, I want everything added to Evergreen as long as it doesn't break
the functionality of the code and I have the option to NOT use it.
Beyond that, it's all good.
I'm wondering if we're getting into another area of discussion - the need
for some kind of a release manager. I've said this before in another
meeting - I think that has to come out of the developer community itself.
We could make some recommendations, I suppose . Not sure what our role
should be. I recognize the issue, just not sure how we address it and how
big a role the Foundation would play.
Having an informal discussion with all current Evergreen developers would be
helpful.
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From: evergreen-governance-l-bounces at list.georgialibraries.org
[mailto:evergreen-governance-l-bounces at list.georgialibraries.org] On Behalf
Of Corridan, Jim (ICPR)
Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2010 4:23 PM
To: Williamson, Cynthia; Lori Bowen Ayre; McKinney, Elizabeth
Cc: evergreen-governance-l at list.georgialibraries.org
Subject: Re: [Evergreen-governance-l] FW: Be sure to do this
Cynthia
Someone has to make a determination that new development "X" should be added
to the core of Evergreen. Galen and Dan have argued against having a
Technology Committee, therefore the default would be the Governance
Committee. I agree the Governance Committee may lack the expertise to make
those decisions, which is why the Technology Committee was proposed - to
recommend approval of code commits. The language for the Tech Committee may
not have been drafted well, but that was the purpose.
I don't think anyone is advocating that enhancements and developments need
to be approved by some central authority. They have successfully been
occurring organically. Here the issue is the desire for decision-makers and
developers to know who is working on what so that others may join in
funding, providing input, or writing code to assist the effort.
Jim
From: evergreen-governance-l-bounces at list.georgialibraries.org
[mailto:evergreen-governance-l-bounces at list.georgialibraries.org] On Behalf
Of Williamson, Cynthia
Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2010 4:06 PM
To: Lori Bowen Ayre; McKinney, Elizabeth
Cc: evergreen-governance-l at list.georgialibraries.org
Subject: Re: [Evergreen-governance-l] FW: Be sure to do this
Thank you Elizabeth, I have been following the discussion and have not
really been sure how to chime in. Your words sound exactly right to me - we
are in new territory here and building in some flexibility for varying
perspectives is difficult. And Lori's words around the importance of
promotion are also very important. And as for rewarding significant
participation with voting rights, I don't see how you couldn't include
development in that definition, without the developers we're nowhere,
there's nothing to build or promote.
The other thing that occurs to me is that perhaps we're stuck on the word
"coding"? I may be way off here but stick with me . I don't see how the
executive of the governance committee could possibly approve code of any
kind - perhaps that's not what's being suggested but just to make my
point.Approving and committing code will always be in the hands of the
developers. While I am completely awed by the development process, I cannot
possibly give an opinion about how it gets done, but I, and no doubt most of
us,do have opinions on what features and enhancements are important. Perhaps
we should be thinking about or saying "features and enhancements" rather
than code when we're thinking/talking governance? If we use those words
does it help anyone? Am I just muddying things further?
Regards, Cynthia
From: evergreen-governance-l-bounces at list.georgialibraries.org
[mailto:evergreen-governance-l-bounces at list.georgialibraries.org] On Behalf
Of Lori Bowen Ayre
Sent: August 31, 2010 3:48 PM
To: McKinney, Elizabeth
Cc: evergreen-governance-l at list.georgialibraries.org
Subject: Re: [Evergreen-governance-l] FW: Be sure to do this
Elizabeth,
Did you have a specific recommendation in mind? I'd like to hear it if you
do.
What I see evolving is a system that encourages participation. I think it
is important that we interpret "siginficant participation" broadly and
reward that significant participation with voting rights. But those voting
rights have to do with governance of assets more not developing code.
Development can't really be separated from funding. Unless we have a system
for paying everyone who develops, we can't really tell the whole development
team what to do. What gets done evolves organically based on library
priorities (I REALLY want this feature so I'm going to find a way to fund
it).
I think what we might be able to agree upon is some principles about how
development decisions are made... might that get at what you are concerned
about?
Lori
On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 12:31 PM, McKinney, Elizabeth
<emckinney at georgialibraries.org> wrote:
It looks like we need to further define membership/membership levels and
what their respective voting powers would be as per section 2.1.
Sylvia said: "It appears that the focus is leaning toward giving developers
and vendors a greater voice than the users."
Dan said: "Those who put in the most effort to improve Evergreen would be
those who would have a modicum more power <snip> "
We all want the same thing: a product that gives us great flexibility to
serve our library staff/library patron base in terms of functionality,
support and service. However, we are all coming to the table with widely
varying perspectives on what is best for the community and how to achieve
that.
Sylvia said: "This brings me back to a question Jim Corridan asked
yesterday, and that is: How will decisions about the code be handled? Is
the plan for determining modifications/updates/contributions to the
Evergreen code always to remain separate and outside of the foundation
purview?"
The community should have some voice in what goes into the final product.
Of course, specific code should be reviewed by senior developers before it
goes into the final product. Part of the "foundation's" charge should be to
encourage growth in the developer/code committer pool. Equinox and Dan Scott
cannot possibly handle development and code oversight for all future
potential Evergreen users. My point is: we have to plan and prepare for
growth. And we need some checks in place to be sure the developers
priorities are in line with the needs of the larger community while allowing
them creative freedom at the same time.
I don't think we need to take a cookie cutter route that looks solely at
other software projects. We must consider the library community and
structure the community entity around all groups of interest. While we do
need to look at other open source projects for guidance, we are in uncharted
territory for the library community. This is something that we have learned
with PINES.
One quick word about specifics of the Rules of Governance. I would highly
recommend term limits through our own experience here in Georgia. Perhaps a
long term such as 5 years would help with consistency. I am also in favor of
staggering the appointments.
Perhaps I will put membership definition on the agenda for our next meeting.
We can work on membership levels at the subsequent meeting.
Elizabeth McKinney
PINES Program Director
Georgia Public Library Service
A Unit of the University System of Georgia
1800 Century Place, Suite 150
Atlanta GA 30345
404.235.7141
emckinney at georgialibraries.org
http://www.georgialibraries.org/
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sylvia Watson" <sywatson at library.IN.gov>
To: "Dan Scott" <dan at coffeecode.net>, "Jim Corridan (ICPR)"
<jcorridan at icpr.IN.gov>
Cc: evergreen-governance-l at list.georgialibraries.org
Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 1:59:12 PM
Subject: Re: [Evergreen-governance-l] FW: Be sure to do this
It appears that the focus is leaning toward giving developers and vendors a
greater voice than the users. It was my understanding that this
organization was supposed to be a centralized organization where you can
find everything related to Evergreen: website, list serves, grant
resources, technical help, code modifications, user support, keeper of
Evergreen assets, branding & advertising, annual conference; activities that
promote Evergreen use, etc. Each area would presumably be handled by
groups/committees with special expertise in a particular area, and of course
all participants would be members. Under this premise you have many more
individuals making meaningful and beneficial contributions to the Evergreen
project than just the developers and vendors.
I understand that developers who are contributing to the code should have a
strong voice. However, shouldn't the users have a strong voice as well;
especially as the user base continues to grow internationally and presumably
becomes the primary source of revenue for the organization and is actively
working to support Evergreen in the areas noted above?
It seems to me that we need to find a way to make sure all members have a
meaningful voice if we are going to have an all-encompassing organization
such as noted in the first paragraph of the e-mail. Of course, most of the
above is moot if others were not thinking this was going to be an
all-encompassing organization such as the one I described in the above.
This brings me back to a question Jim Corridan asked yesterday, and that is:
How will decisions about the code be handled? Is the plan for determining
modifications/updates/contributions to the Evergreen code always to remain
separate and outside of the foundation purview? If so, then I am unclear as
to the basis for providing developers a greater voice in other Foundation
matters?
Is the purpose of the foundation intended to be much more limited in focus
than what I noted in the first paragraph of this e-mail?
Sylvia
-----Original Message-----
From: evergreen-governance-l-bounces at list.georgialibraries.org
[mailto:evergreen-governance-l-bounces at list.georgialibraries.org] On Behalf
Of Dan Scott
Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 12:21 PM
To: Corridan, Jim (ICPR)
Cc: evergreen-governance-l at list.georgialibraries.org
Subject: Re: [Evergreen-governance-l] FW: Be sure to do this
On Mon, 2010-08-30 at 11:49 -0400, Corridan, Jim (ICPR) wrote:
> So a library serving 15,000 people as a stand-alone installation of
Evergreen would have the same vote as the 50 + Georgia Pines libraries or
the 75 members of the Evergreen Indiana?
To go back to the membership structure I've suggested (with several
friendly amendments - thanks Lori and Galen et al), they would have
equal votes, _unless_ one of the sites has more people contributing
documentation or code or mailing list support or whatever. Those who put
in the most effort to improve Evergreen would be those who would have a
modicum more power - which has the twin results of placing an incentive
on contributing to the project, and putting that power in the hands of
those who are most closely associated with the project.
I really don't think size (either in number of libraries or population
served) should be a significant factor in distributing the control over
Evergreen's trademarks and community finances.
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