[Eg-oversight-board] EOB meeting at the conference

Wed Mar 5 11:28:10 EST 2014

I think it would be worth sitting down to review the tools at our disposal
but also discuss what our responsibilities are and what we think they
should be.  And I want to applaud you for starting to think to the future
on this Elizabeth.  I think this might be worth a sit around the table
conversation for quicker back and forth but I'll give some additional
thoughts here.  Not all are direct responses to what you brought up
Elizabeth but follow down a few corollary paths.

We have the Evergreen trademark.  That means that code can't be forked and
called Evergreen in any way shape or form.

We have the GPL so we can force access to the code and expand on it if it's
re-distributed.

Both of those things protect Evergreen but don't prevent someone from
creating a new thing out of it.  It would be entirely within someone's
rights to take Evergreen and build a whole new incompatible ILS out of it,
stripping what they don't like and calling it Bonsai.  I don't have a
problem with that, that's part of the intention of the GPL is to enable
such things.

Now, I do have a personal issue if a library were to do that and use it for
their library and not republish the code.  It's legal but I think it's
wrong.  But all I can do is as an individual, express my personal opinion
as to the wrongness of the action.

Now, could we have stopped this?  Let's imagine that the Bonsai library was
an Evergreen library first before they forked the code.  I'm not in favor
of trying to extend our legal rights to make additional requirements of
Evergreen code users.  We start moving away from the GPL there and if we
even begin thinking about such things we need Tony here for every step of
that discussion.  I'll probably oppose it pretty strongly as well.  With
that said, unless we did that there's nothing we could force.

Could we encourage, could we take a more active role, could we try to set a
standard, maybe make some voluntary to sign community policies that foster
the kind of community we want?  I think that's a discussion very much worth
having.  I think this is more of what you were asking Elizabeth and how I
took your email but correct me if I'm wrong.

On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 10:39 AM, McKinney, Elizabeth <
emckinney at georgialibraries.org> wrote:

> Hi Ben,
>
> I am not proposing anything at this point other than discussion of the
> Board's role given that we are now seeing what appears to be the first
> fork.  Yes, we need to consider the health of the community and protecting
> our assets.
>
> Is/was there something we can/could have done as a board to keep KCLS as a
> community member and partner in development? Do we want to take an active
> role in these types of community situations?  Since the Board works
> directly with the SFC to deal with copyright/licensing/trademark, we also
> need to have that discussion. If a fracture occurs, what do we need to do
> as the board to protect the assets of the community?
>
> Elizabeth McKinney
> PINES Program Director
> Georgia Public Library Service
> A Unit of the University System of Georgia
> 1800 Century Place, Suite 150
> Atlanta GA 30345
> 404.235.7141
> emckinney at georgialibraries.org
> http://www.georgialibraries.org/
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
> *From: *"Ben Hyman" <ben.hyman at bc.libraries.coop>
> *To: *"Elizabeth McKinney" <emckinney at georgialibraries.org>
> *Cc: *"Rogan Hamby" <rogan.hamby at gmail.com>, "Oversight Board" <
> eg-oversight-board at list.evergreen-ils.org>
> *Sent: *Tuesday, March 4, 2014 11:24:18 AM
>
> *Subject: *Re: [Eg-oversight-board] EOB meeting at the conference
>
> Hi Elizabeth,
>
> I'm interested to hear more about what are you proposing. The health of
> the Evergreen community is common cause - by celebrating shared successes
> and creating an environment for more successes, don't we all win? Seems to
> me the board's efforts on the resource allocator summit, merchandising
> initiatives and others came about with these objectives in mind. Did you
> have other pragmatic ideas?
>
> Cheers
>
> Ben Hyman
> Executive Director | BC Libraries Cooperative
> ben.hyman at bc.libraries.coop | 1.855.383.5761 ext 1001 | cell: 250.889.2738
> bc.libraries.coop | Twitter: @BCLibrariesCoop
>
> On 2014-03-04, at 7:20 AM, McKinney, Elizabeth wrote:
>
> > Rogan and all,
> >
> > More than code and licenses, I think the EOB needs to consider if it
> will take on a role addressing fractures in the community.  And if so, how?
> >
> > Elizabeth
> >
> > Elizabeth McKinney
> > PINES Program Director
> > Georgia Public Library Service
> > A Unit of the University System of Georgia
> > 1800 Century Place, Suite 150
> > Atlanta GA 30345
> > 404.235.7141
> > emckinney at georgialibraries.org
> > http://www.georgialibraries.org/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: "Rogan Hamby" <rogan.hamby at gmail.com>
> > To: "Elizabeth McKinney" <emckinney at georgialibraries.org>
> > Cc: "Galen Charlton" <gmc at esilibrary.com>, "Oversight Board" <
> eg-oversight-board at list.evergreen-ils.org>
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 4, 2014 10:00:05 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Eg-oversight-board] EOB meeting at the conference
> >
> > Has the code they have produced been publicly released?  I'll be honest,
> without a public release of their changes I don't feel confidant in any
> description of their efforts as a fork, spork or anything else.  I've
> several times asked for them to share their work with the community and
> essentially been told that it's not the kind of thing that translates, it's
> a case by case optimization.  That's pretty vague and not disputable from
> the outside.
> >
> > Evergreen is released under the GPL which doesn't require that changes
> be distributed, only that if they are that they are distributed under
> certain terms.  In fact, in a sense, the GPL is permission to fork.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 9:52 AM, McKinney, Elizabeth <
> emckinney at georgialibraries.org> wrote:
> > Galen and all,
> >
> > I would like to add an agenda item to the upcoming EOB meeting.  While I
> know that we will need to develop our agenda for the community update, we
> as a group should consider how to handle forks in the Evergreen code.
> >
> > From the KCLS Director's Report, February 2013 :
> https://www.kcls.org/about/board/2013/02262013/directorsreport.pdf
> > In light of what appears to be a fork in the code, that brings up a few
> questions for discussion:
> >
> > Does the EOB have a role in attempting to prevent forks in the code?
> > Should the EOB chair convene a group to contact and work with anyone
> intending to fork?
> > If a fork occurs, should we monitor the situation for cases of
> copyright/trademark infringement? We would assume they would contribute
> their code back to the community or change the name of their product.
> >
> > Elizabeth
> >
> >
> >
> > Elizabeth McKinney
> > PINES Program Director
> > Georgia Public Library Service
> > A Unit of the University System of Georgia
> > 1800 Century Place, Suite 150
> > Atlanta GA 30345
> > 404.235.7141
> > emckinney at georgialibraries.org
> > http://www.georgialibraries.org/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: "Galen Charlton" <gmc at esilibrary.com>
> > To: "Kathy Lussier" <klussier at masslnc.org>
> > Cc: eg-oversight-board at list.evergreen-ils.org
> > Sent: Monday, March 3, 2014 4:56:17 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Eg-oversight-board] EOB meeting at the conference
> >
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > 7:30 a.m. on Thursday is fine with me, as is doing it at lunch.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Galen
> >
> > On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 12:17 PM, Kathy Lussier <klussier at masslnc.org>
> wrote:
> > > Sorry folks. I wasn't thinking clearly when I wrote this last e-mail
> (or the
> > > first one for that matter).
> > >
> > > Our conference meeting space is only available until 5 p.m. Wednesday.
> We
> > > would need to start at 4 p.m. to get in an hour-long meeting, and I do
> think
> > > that several Board members will be running late as they wrap up with
> their
> > > the reports tutorials and the hackfests.
> > >
> > > I had originally suggested 8 a.m. Thursday as an alternative. However,
> I now
> > > realize that this time isn't ideal for me. As we get closer to 9 a.m.,
>  I
> > > will need to prepare to get things lined up for our morning
> programming.
> > > Dare I say 7:30 a.m. on Thursday?
> > >
> > > The only other options I see are 1) lunchtime Thursday, which I'm
> guessing
> > > will be problematic for Yamil, who is coordinating the Lunch-Arounds
> and
> > > 2)Thursday afternoon, which will conflict with the vendor reception.
> > >
> > > My apologies in advance to those who are traveling from the West Coast
> and
> > > those who just aren't usually awake that early in the morning.
> > >
> > >
> > > Kathy
> > >
> > > Kathy Lussier
> > > Project Coordinator
> > > Massachusetts Library Network Cooperative
> > > (508) 343-0128
> > > klussier at masslnc.org
> > > Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/kmlussier
> > >
> > > On 3/3/2014 2:27 PM, Kathy Lussier wrote:
> > >>
> > >> We also could probably push it back to 4:30 since others on the Board
> will
> > >> most likely be finishing up with their respective hackfests at 4
> p.m., if
> > >> they aren't attending the reports tutorial.
> > >>
> > >> Kathy
> > >>
> > >> Kathy Lussier
> > >> Project Coordinator
> > >> Massachusetts Library Network Cooperative
> > >> (508) 343-0128
> > >> klussier at masslnc.org
> > >> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/kmlussier
> > >>
> > >> On 3/3/2014 2:16 PM, Chauncey Montgomery wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> Kathy,
> > >>> I'll be doing a tutorial on reports until 4pm on Wednesday, but if
> the
> > >>> Wednesday time works for everyone else, I could just be a little
> late to the
> > >>> meeting.
> > >>> CM
> > >>>
> > >>> Chauncey G. Montgomery, MLIS
> > >>> Director/Fiscal Officer | Community Library
> > >>> 44 Burrer Drive | Sunbury, OH 43074
> > >>> 740-965-3901 | http://community.lib.oh.us
> > >>>
> > >>> On 02/28/2014 05:10 PM, Kathy Lussier wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Hi all,
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Following up from our meeting yesterday, we do have space available
> at
> > >>>> the conference for an EOB meeting. What time do people want to meet
> > >>>> during the conference? In prior years, we've tried not to meet at a
> time
> > >>>> when programming is happening. The EOB update will be on Friday
> morning
> > >>>> this year, so we may want to meet before Friday.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Since I'm guessing most EOB members will be around for the resource
> > >>>> allocator summit, will a Wednesday afternoon meeting around 4 p.m.
> work
> > >>>> for people? Another possibility is 8 a.m. on Thursday. The
> reception is
> > >>>> Thursday at 5p.m., so I don't think we want to meet then.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Kathy
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> eg-oversight-board mailing list
> > >> eg-oversight-board at list.evergreen-ils.org
> > >>
> http://list.evergreen-ils.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/eg-oversight-board
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > eg-oversight-board mailing list
> > > eg-oversight-board at list.evergreen-ils.org
> > >
> http://list.evergreen-ils.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/eg-oversight-board
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Galen Charlton
> > Manager of Implementation
> > Equinox Software, Inc. / The Open Source Experts
> > email:  gmc at esilibrary.com
> > direct: +1 770-709-5581
> > cell:   +1 404-984-4366
> > skype:  gmcharlt
> > web:    http://www.esilibrary.com/
> > Supporting Koha and Evergreen: http://koha-community.org &
> > http://evergreen-ils.org
> > _______________________________________________
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> > eg-oversight-board at list.evergreen-ils.org
> >
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> >
> >
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> >
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> >
> >
> >
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> >
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