[Eg-oversight-board] Fwd: Evergreen participation in Outreachy?

Wed Sep 7 15:23:07 EDT 2016

Thanks, Kathy.  And before I read your previous posts, what I was going to
offer was $500 to offset the costs of being a part of Outreachy.  But I
wonder if we could do it with the caveat that the intern has to have some
library connection.....

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Lori Bowen Ayre //
Library Technology Consultant / The Galecia Group
(707) 763-6869 // Lori.Ayre at galecia.com
Availability:  https://doodle.com/loriayre

<Lori.Ayre at galecia.com>Specializing in RFID, automated materials handling,
workflow optimization, and Drupal services
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On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 11:16 AM, Kathy Lussier <klussier at masslnc.org> wrote:

> Hi Lori,
>
> Sorry for the delayed response.
>
> Yes, I think it's always helpful for libraries to try to find additional
> avenues for getting development done. However, I wanted to clarify that I
> wasn't saying there isn't a real need to see growth in the Evergreen
> developer community. Bringing more active developers into the community
> would indeed help to alleviate bottlenecks since more people would be
> working on the code. It also provides more options to libraries, which is
> always a good thing.
>
> Despite the fact that recent releases include features important to
> MassLNC, some of which came from our own contributors and some of which
> were sponsored, we also have others that are taking longer than we would
> have liked. What I was trying to say in my earlier email, though, is that
> the inability to move a particular project forward is not the same thing as
> saying that all development unrelated to the web client has come to a halt.
> It's frustrating when you have to struggle and wait to bring a new feature
> to fruition. I know, I've been there. But the software does continue to
> grow and, in addition to bringing new features in every release, has also
> become more secure for patrons over the past year.
>
> Bringing this thread back to my original question, I'm not sure
> participating in a short-term internship program is the right way to grow
> the developer community. It's helpful in getting more new programmers to
> learn how to work in an open-source community and, from our successful GSoC
> experiences, it has led to new features for the software. I think these are
> all great things. However, I'm not quite sure what the hook is to keep
> those former interns active in our community. If we had a mentorship
> program that worked with people who are planning to or already working in
> libraries, I might feel differently because there is more of an interest to
> stay involved. Even if they don't stay involved, they will continue to
> remember their Evergreen experience at some future point when their
> libraries are exploring ILS options.
>
> Bringing in more libraries might also lead to more options because those
> libraries could have more technical staff who can contribute to the project
> or they may create a larger market, making it more viable for developers to
> create their own Evergreen development services company. This is part of
> the reason for forming the Outreach Committee - to help us get the word out
> about how our libraries are succeeding with Evergreen.
>
> What I need to know now, though, is if there is interest from the EOB in
> pursuing Outreachy for this session. If there is interest in funding this
> internship, we need to also reach out to the community to see if anyone
> will volunteer to organize the program and mentor students. If there isn't
> interest, I need to get back to the Outreachy folks to let them know.
>
> Kathy
>
> On 09/02/2016 04:38 PM, Lori Ayre wrote:
>
> Thanks for your feedback, Kathy. Based on the release notes, it does look
> like some important progress is being made. Be advised that I was reporting
> what I'm hearing from people as I talk to various Evergreen community
> members so it is a perception out there even if there is some good progress
> being made.  I wonder if it has more to do with who's enhancements are
> represented in the release notes. If a library has had something on a wish
> list for a long time and they haven't made any progress bringing it to
> fruition, I imagine they would be frustrated.
>
> So maybe part of the problem is that people don't know what they need to
> do to increase the likelihood of a desired enhancement getting the right
> kind of attention. That might be another angle to focus on....is there a
> resource out there that provides some guidance about the process for
> getting an enhancement into the code? From my point of view, the libraries
> seem to think the solution to getting an enhancement is to hire Equinox to
> do it.  So, it is possible that many libraries have created their own
> bottleneck by relying on only one development team.
>
> Do you think you feel better about the progress being made with Evergreen
> because of MassLNC's very active involvement in the development and
> developer community? My belief is that you and your team represent a model
> that others should be replicating.  Do you think that if more consortia
> were doing the kinds of work you and the folks in Massachusetts are doing
> in terms of documentation and coding, we wouldn't have some of the
> bottlenecks?
>
> Lori
>
> P.S. I don't want to give the impression I'm picking on Equinox. I
> appreciate all the work they do for sure.  I'm looking for feedback because
> I want to a) support Evergreen and do whatever I can to contribute to its
> success as I do my consulting work and b) see if my ideas of what would
> make a difference seem right to those of you in the trenches! So, feedback
> appreciated online or offline.
>
>
>
>
> =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> Lori Bowen Ayre //
> Library Technology Consultant / The Galecia Group
> (707) 763-6869 // Lori.Ayre at galecia.com
> Availability:  https://doodle.com/loriayre
>
> Specializing in RFID, automated materials handling,
> workflow optimization, and Drupal services
> =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>
> On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 11:51 AM, Kathy Lussier <klussier at masslnc.org>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Lori,
>>
>> We actually had a discussion at our most recent dev meeting about
>> building mentorship opportunities for coders and will be continuing that
>> discussion at the hack-a-way in November. It's something that I know
>> MassLNC is very interested in seeing happen, and I'm sure others in the
>> community feel the same.
>>
>> However, after working firsthand with the OPW program and observing
>> closely our previous efforts with GSoC, I'm not sure those programs are the
>> best fit for this community. I think those programs work very well in
>> open-source communities where there is a lot of volunteer interest because
>> the software is something that gets broad use in business or in personal
>> life. Those volunteers have an incentive to keep contributing to the
>> community after the internship because they have a vested interest in
>> seeing the software succeed.
>>
>> Although most of our previous interns have certainly loved libraries,
>> they aren't working in them and, therefore, have no vested interest in
>> continuing in the community once their internship is complete. My personal
>> opinion (and others may disagree with me) is that we might have better
>> success if we work with people who are already working in libraries or are
>> involved in MLS programs.
>>
>> I do want to take issue with the perception that "all other development
>> comes to a halt." I'm looking at the draft release notes for 2.11 -
>> https://evergreen-ils.org/documentation/release/RELEASE_NOTES_2_11.html
>> and the release notes for our March 2.10 release -
>> https://evergreen-ils.org/documentation/release/RELEASE_NOTES_2_10.html.
>> This doesn't look like halted development to me.
>>
>> In particular, I would like to point out my personal favorite from the
>> release notes, the activity metric for relevance ranking (AKA statistically
>> generated record ratings) that I think will be a big boon to searches
>> performed in the catalog. This was no small project and was completed at
>> the same time work was being performed on the web client. In addition to
>> the web client, MassLNC has projects lined up to improve cross-reference
>> support and to make much-needed improvements to search. I'm sure others
>> have projects coming down the pike as well.
>>
>> I'm not saying that the web client hasn't taken up a lot of developer
>> resources over the past couple of years, that I'm not also concerned about
>> growing developer resources in the community, and that I'm not looking
>> forward to the day when we the web client is not putting such a strain on
>> our existing developer resources. But I do want to point out that the
>> software is moving forward even as the web client project proceeds.
>>
>> Please understand that the web client is a very large project that, while
>> resource intensive, will ultimately bring many benefits to Evergreen users.
>> It's large, and it has to be large if we want to see it done right. I
>> applaud Equinox and the larger developer community for taking the necessary
>> steps to make the big infrastructure changes rather than bolting on small
>> fixes that might lead to short-term happiness, but will not bring the
>> larger improvement that is needed in our software.
>>
>> Kathy
>>
>>
>> On 09/02/2016 02:13 PM, Lori Ayre wrote:
>>
>> Hi Kathy and all,
>>
>> I just went through and read through the thread about participating in
>> this the last time it came up.  And I have to say it was disheartening.
>> Has anything been done around the idea Grace raised - to survey people who
>> have attempted to get involved in coding for Evergreen to find out what the
>> impediments were?  I think that would be very fruitful....if you can find
>> them.
>>
>> I have a perspective on this topic I'd like to share.  I'm working with a
>> couple Evergreen consortia right now and in the process I'm talking with
>> many other consortia on Evergreen (and other ILSs including Koha) and there
>> is a consistent theme that Evergreen development is too slow and that this
>> is beginning to make some consortia question whether Evergreen really makes
>> sense for them.  It isn't uncommon for me hear that people are frustrated
>> that it is taking so long to deliver the web client and that other
>> enhancements are being tabled until that is done. And it starts to feel
>> strikingly similar to what it was like with a commercial ILS where requests
>> for enhancements were ignored.
>>
>> I think this is because there so few developers. I know Equinox is
>> focusing their energies on the web client but that shouldn't mean all other
>> development comes to a halt.  There should be more human resources involved
>> so that one company focusing on one big component shouldn't halt progress
>> on everything else.  I know this same thing happened when KCLS first got
>> involved and was able to monopolize the the limited developer community to
>> focus on their priorities. And I have to say that I personally attempted to
>> bring in more developers to the fold (as part of that KCLS initiative) so
>> that instead of monopolizing the limited resources, the end result would be
>> to expand and enrich the pool of developers.  But that turned out to be
>> VERY hard to do. And the people I got interested in development and who
>> tried to get involved...all gave up - discouraged and frustrated.
>>
>> So, I'd like to suggest it should be a very high priority to find a
>> better way to attract, on-board, and retain people who would like to get
>> involved in the Evergreen community on the coding level.  I don't think
>> waiting on delivery of the web client is an adequate strategy.
>>
>> Lori
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>> Lori Bowen Ayre //
>> Library Technology Consultant / The Galecia Group
>> (707) 763-6869 // Lori.Ayre at galecia.com
>> Availability:  https://doodle.com/loriayre
>>
>> Specializing in RFID, automated materials handling,
>> workflow optimization, and Drupal services
>> =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 5:22 AM, Kathy Lussier <klussier at masslnc.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> Outreachy (formerly Outreach Program for Women) is happening again. The
>>> administrators are asking if there is any interest in participating from
>>> the Evergreen community.
>>>
>>> I'm also linking to the EOB thread from the last time this question was
>>> raised - http://list.evergreen-ils.org/pipermail/eg-oversight-board/2
>>> 016-February/001209.html.
>>>
>>> FWIW, I stand by the comments I made in that previous thread.
>>>
>>> Kathy
>>>
>>>
>>> -------- Forwarded Message --------
>>> Subject: Evergreen participation in Outreachy?
>>> Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2016 14:11:16 -0700
>>> From: Sarah Sharp <saharabeara at gmail.com> <saharabeara at gmail.com>
>>> To: Kathy Lussier <klussier at masslnc.org> <klussier at masslnc.org>
>>> CC: outreachy-admins at gnome.org
>>>
>>> Hi Kathy,
>>>
>>> The Outreachy program is looking for organizations to participate in
>>> round 13.  Do you think Evergreen would be willing to participate again?
>>> The round will open on September 12, and the sooner Evergreen is listed,
>>> the more likely you'll get strong applicants.
>>>
>>> Sarah Sharp
>>>
>>> On Sat, Aug 27, 2016 at 4:41 PM, Sarah A Sharp <sarah at thesharps.us> <sarah at thesharps.us> wrote:
>>> > Dear coordinators and mentors,
>>> >
>>> > Thank you for being a part of our outreach program! The next round for
>>> > Outreachy is scheduled to open on September 12, with an application deadline
>>> > of October 17. Internships will run from December 6 to March 6.
>>> >
>>> > If your organization is interested in participating in the next round,
>>> > please update your landing page, and let us know by September 7 if you will
>>> > participate. Organization coordinators and mentors, please coordinate on the
>>> > following:
>>> >
>>> >  * Review set up information at
>>> > https://wiki.gnome.org/Outreachy/Admin/GettingStarted
>>> >  * Secure funding for your org to sponsor at least one intern ($6,500)
>>> >  * Update your org's landing page
>>> >  * List your project ideas and recruit other mentors
>>> >  * Let us know at outreachy-admins at gnome.org that your org is participating
>>> >  * Start spreading the word about your org's internships - no need to wait
>>> > for September 12
>>> >
>>> > We plan on having a twitter chat about Outreachy on Wednesday, September 21,
>>> > to spotlight the organizations that are participating, and allow orgs to
>>> > answer any questions people have. Participation in the chat is optional, but
>>> > if you do want to participate, being able to link to a blog post that
>>> > describes why you're passionate about your project would help us promote
>>> > your project.
>>> >
>>> > The updated resources for the upcoming round are:
>>> >
>>> >  * https://wiki.gnome.org/Outreachy/2016/DecemberMarch - a page with a
>>> > timeline and participating organizations listing.
>>> >
>>> >  * https://wiki.gnome.org/Outreachy/Admin/InfoForOrgs and
>>> > https://wiki.gnome.org/Outreachy/Admin/InfoForOrgs/Proposal - these pages
>>> > have motivation and information for sponsorship; you can use and customize
>>> > the text from the Proposal page to approach companies about sponsorship
>>> > (please do a quick check with Karen, Marina, and myself at
>>> > outreachy-admins at gnome.org alias first to make sure we coordinate any
>>> > efforts to approach the same company).
>>> >
>>> >  * https://wiki.gnome.org/Outreachy/Admin/GettingStarted - please review
>>> > this page when you are updating the landing page for your organization.
>>> >
>>> >  * https://wiki.gnome.org/Outreachy#Contracts - please make all people who
>>> > volunteer as mentors in your organization aware that they will need to sign
>>> > a contract similar to this to be a mentor in the program. Interns cannot be
>>> > paid until their mentors sign the contract, so it is important that mentors
>>> > sign the contract as soon as the application system opens on September 12.
>>> >
>>> >  * https://wiki.gnome.org/Outreachy#Eligibility - last year we expanded the
>>> > Outreachy program to include underrepresented people of color
>>> > underrepresented in tech in the U.S.  Outreachy continues to be open
>>> > internationally to women (cis and trans), trans men, and genderqueer people.
>>> >
>>> > Please contact Karen, Marina, and myself at outreachy-admins at gnome.org alias
>>> > if you have any questions. We hope you can join us for this round!
>>> >
>>> > Thanks,
>>> > Sarah Sharp
>>> >
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________ eg-oversight-board
>>> mailing list eg-oversight-board at list.evergreen-ils.org
>>> http://list.evergreen-ils.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/eg-ov
>>> ersight-board
>>
>> --
>> Kathy Lussier
>> Project Coordinator
>> Massachusetts Library Network Cooperative(508) 343-0128klussier at masslnc.org
>> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/kmlussier
>>
>> --
> Kathy Lussier
> Project Coordinator
> Massachusetts Library Network Cooperative(508) 343-0128klussier at masslnc.org
> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/kmlussier
>
>
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