[Evergreen-catalogers] How to explain the display of "empty records"?

Wed Oct 5 12:56:30 EDT 2022

Thanks, Mike!

J. Elaine Hardy, PINES and Collaborative Projects Manager
------------------------------

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On Wed, Oct 5, 2022 at 12:20 PM Mike Rylander <mrylander at gmail.com> wrote:

> On LP 1746800 regarding shelving location and availability limited
> searches (https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1746800) I offered a
> mechanism for staff to choose the inclusion or exclusion of empty bibs
> in searches, but a narrower change was chosen to address that
> particular behavioral change. I think that (which will need a "sticky"
> web staff client checkbox for ease of use) would address the need
> here.  I'll point to that branch as a starting point on the new LP bug
> that Mary added yesterday.
>
> --
> Mike Rylander
> Research and Development Manager
> Equinox Open Library Initiative
> 1-877-OPEN-ILS (673-6457)
> work: miker at equinoxOLI.org
> personal: mrylander at gmail.com
> https://equinoxOLI.org
>
> --
> Mike Rylander
> Research and Development Manager
> Equinox Open Library Initiative
> 1-877-OPEN-ILS (673-6457)
> work: miker at equinoxOLI.org
> personal: mrylander at gmail.com
> https://equinoxOLI.org
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 5, 2022 at 11:00 AM Thomsen, Elizabeth via
> Evergreen-catalogers <evergreen-catalogers at list.evergreen-ils.org>
> wrote:
> >
> > Thanks, Elaine, it's helpful to understand your workflow, that's the
> part I was missing!
> >
> > Here we instruct libraries to search at the consortium level for a
> matching title when inputting.  Most inputting is adding the library's
> first item(s) for new material, which means looking for existing records
> that are already in the consortium but not in their library, so searching
> the local collection first and then the consortium seems like an extra step
> -- the opposite of your workflow.  And of course some inputting is adding
> more item(s) to titles they already own (which they may or may not know
> beforehand) in which case starting by searching the library is more
> efficient.
> >
> > But I'm sure there are other differences related to size and workflow
> that are relevant here, and it looks like we need options for how to handle
> these empty records, which could include not having them appear possibly
> with a checkbox to include them in a search, have them appear only at the
> consortium level, have them appear at all levels but with color-coding to
> make the easy to ignore, or maybe workstation or user settings so
> catalogers would see them and public service people wouldn't.
> >
> > On Wed, Oct 5, 2022 at 10:19 AM Elaine Hardy <
> ehardy at georgialibraries.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> PINES catalogers are instructed to first search their library system so
> that they find any existing matching records within their system. And to
> then search all of PINES. Having empty, potentially matching records show
> up in this search means they don't have to do that subsequent all PINES
> search.
> >>
> >> Having the color coding for bib records hidden from the public OPAC
> meant that public services staff knew to ignore those records when
> assisting patrons. It was an extremely helpful tool for all staff since it
> indicated to public services staff the record was likely not available to
> patrons and to cataloging staff that they might need to explore why it
> wasn't visible. We got a lot of complaints from public service and
> cataloging staff when the color coding was dropped. And requests still for
> it to return.
> >>
> >> As to explaining to public service staff. I tell them that it helps
> their colleagues do their job and they understand that and know to ignore
> records with 0/0 holdings.
> >>
> >> We also run a script to delete empty bibs in the database for more than
> 30 days. We also recently cleaned up empty records that had creeped in
> because of an error in the script.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> J. Elaine Hardy, PINES and Collaborative Projects Manager
> >>
> >> ________________________________
> >>
> >> Georgia Public Library Service
> >>
> >> 2872 Woodcock Blvd., Suite 250 | Atlanta, GA 30341
> >>
> >> (404) 235-7128 | ehardy at georgialibraries.org
> >>
> >> (404) 548-4241 | Cell
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Join our email list for stories of Georgia libraries making an impact
> in our communities.
> >>
> >>
> >> It does not do to leave a live dragon out of your calculations, if you
> live near him. — J.R.R. Tolkien
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Tue, Oct 4, 2022 at 3:01 PM Thomsen, Elizabeth via
> Evergreen-catalogers <evergreen-catalogers at list.evergreen-ils.org> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Is it really a feature that empty bibs show up when searching at the
> library level?  It's hard to see the benefit here -- searching the
> Pleasantville Library limits search results to titles owned by
> Pleasantville and also titles owned by nobody. What's the point of that?
> >>>
> >>> We deal with this by running a script to delete empty bibs after two
> weeks -- libraries know they have to add items within that time period
> before or they will automatically get deleted.
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, Oct 4, 2022 at 2:36 PM Mary Llewellyn via Evergreen-catalogers
> <evergreen-catalogers at list.evergreen-ils.org> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Hi Erica,
> >>>>
> >>>> In our case, none of the reported bibs has an 856. These are records
> we loaded at the request of another library, in which they haven't gotten
> around to adding their own items.
> >>>>
> >>>> When we first migrated to Evergreen, the empty bibs were colored in
> gray, and that caused no end of complaints. We were relieved when the
> coloring was turned off. It drew less attention to the empty bibs and
> people calmed down.
> >>>>
> >>>> Our public services staff aren't looking to do any cataloging, so
> seeing the empty bibs, colored in or not, is not helpful to them. Our acq
> staff members are adding an "on order" copy to the records when they
> activate their purchase orders, so there's no need from them to place holds
> on empty bibs. Their display in a library-based search instead of CONS
> serves no useful purpose to us.
> >>>>
> >>>> I don't know if there's been an influx of new staff first running
> into these, or if the angular catalog is making them more prominent,
> displaying them at the top of search results, but I need to write up an FAQ
> for our librarians that I can point at every time we get another complaint.
> I'd like to say something more detailed than "it's a feature, not a bug."
> >>>>
> >>>> Mary
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Tue, Oct 4, 2022 at 2:17 PM Erica Rohlfs <
> erica.rohlfs at equinoxoli.org> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Hi Mary,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I don't know if I can be of much help. I see that you're already
> aware of Wish List - Add color coding when there are no holdings so I'm
> just listing it here for others who are following the discussion. I agree
> with Elaine that having the empty bib records, a.k.a. shadowed records
> color coded was once a very helpful feature. I also agree that some
> mechanism to filter out the truly empty bibs would be a good feature, too.
> Some of the confusion also stems from the fact that, if there is an
> associated 856 subfield 9 on the record, it's not considered empty. This is
> one of the factors that consortia consider when removing the e-resources
> from the catalog (only one factor, I know there are many others). Some
> libraries do filter on Group Formats/Editions to consolidate results, where
> possible. But, this doesn't answer the question of why the records show up
> in the results :-) You've noted that there are catalogers' considerations
> for retrieving empty bibs. Really, the only circulation reason that stands
> out in my mind is that, with the permission to override
> HIGH_LEVEL_HOLD_HAS_NO_COPIES, staff can place holds on empty bibs. I don't
> know how many use cases there are for it, maybe Acquisitions and
> Collections Librarians in the community have specific use cases. I'd love
> to learn more about them.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Thank You,
> >>>>> Erica
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Tue, Oct 4, 2022 at 1:27 PM Mary Llewellyn via
> Evergreen-catalogers <evergreen-catalogers at list.evergreen-ils.org> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Hi all,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I could use some advice.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> We have our catalogers use CONS as their search library so they can
> find all records, with and without items, when they need to catalog their
> own items.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> However, the public services staff use their own library as a
> search library, and that's where we run into staff confusion.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> When they run into a bib record with no items, they report that to
> us as an error.
> >>>>>> When they are searching in their own library, they expect to only
> retrieve records with their items.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I'm trying to come up with a succinct explanation for why they see
> those records. I do assure them that their public does not see the "empty"
> records, that they only appear in the staff catalog. Can someone share with
> me the official reason for why these records display?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I wish there were some way to prevent them from coming up in their
> searches.
> >>>>>> --
> >>>>>> Mary Llewellyn
> >>>>>> Database Manager
> >>>>>> Bibliomation, Inc.
> >>>>>> 24 Wooster Ave.
> >>>>>> Waterbury, CT 06708
> >>>>>> mllewell at biblio.org
> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>> Evergreen-catalogers mailing list
> >>>>>> Evergreen-catalogers at list.evergreen-ils.org
> >>>>>>
> http://list.evergreen-ils.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/evergreen-catalogers
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> Erica Rohlfs, MLIS, PMP
> >>>>> Senior Implementation Project Manager
> >>>>> Equinox Open Library Initiative
> >>>>> erica.rohlfs at equinoxOLI.org
> >>>>> https://equinoxOLI.org
> >>>>> phone: 877-OPEN-ILS (673-6457)
> >>>>> direct: 770-709-5572
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> Mary Llewellyn
> >>>> Database Manager
> >>>> Bibliomation, Inc.
> >>>> 24 Wooster Ave.
> >>>> Waterbury, CT 06708
> >>>> mllewell at biblio.org
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Evergreen-catalogers mailing list
> >>>> Evergreen-catalogers at list.evergreen-ils.org
> >>>>
> http://list.evergreen-ils.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/evergreen-catalogers
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Elizabeth B. Thomsen
> >>> Member Services Manager
> >>> NOBLE: North of Boston Library Exchange
> >>> Danvers, Mass.
> >>> www.noblenet.org
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Evergreen-catalogers mailing list
> >>> Evergreen-catalogers at list.evergreen-ils.org
> >>>
> http://list.evergreen-ils.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/evergreen-catalogers
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Elizabeth B. Thomsen
> > Member Services Manager
> > NOBLE: North of Boston Library Exchange
> > Danvers, Mass.
> > www.noblenet.org
> > _______________________________________________
> > Evergreen-catalogers mailing list
> > Evergreen-catalogers at list.evergreen-ils.org
> >
> http://list.evergreen-ils.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/evergreen-catalogers
>
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