[evergreen-outreach] annual report printing

Wed Jan 3 13:20:46 EST 2018

Rogan,

Thank you for this.  Another thing to throw into the mix.  I FINALLY feel
confident that I can lend myself to this specific task if there's a way
that you (Rogan, Kathy) have something that contribution would be helpful
rather than hindering.

On Wed, Jan 3, 2018 at 1:08 PM, Rogan Hamby <rogan.hamby at gmail.com> wrote:

> I'm probably a broken record in this but I've always been in favor of
> moving to open source but time is my concern.  I've struggled to find the
> time to do what I have on the report and I can't in good conscience promise
> more time so this needs to be something fairly time neutral in terms of my
> commitment and that means also working out a method of sharing the working
> files reasonably or it will return to a single person's shoulders which is
> something we should move away from.  I like the idea of moving files into
> git when we hit milestones but git and binary files (aka bit maps, vectors,
> etc....) aren't a great mix for versioning.  So time to work that out also
> needs to be factored in.
>
> On Wed, Jan 3, 2018 at 1:01 PM, Ruth Frasur <director at hagerstownlibrary.
> org> wrote:
>
>> Just my two cents into this...
>>
>> First of all, thank you...continually...to Rogan and Kathy for your
>> extensive work on the annual report.  I like the idea of moving away from
>> expensive, proprietary tools to open source ones when possible.  That's
>> "when possible" is a big statement.  I think, if Rogan feels confident
>> (reasonably) with the proposed worse case timeline, it'd be a worthy thing
>> for Kathy to look at migrating to Scribus.
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 3, 2018 at 12:54 PM, Rogan Hamby <rogan.hamby at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Yeah, that's not too bad of an indicator.  Different dev communities
>>> have different expectations of the dev version.  How did the bitmaps import
>>> / link?  Did you do any tests of PDF export yet?
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 3, 2018 at 12:51 PM, Kathy Lussier <klussier at masslnc.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yeah, well, that's why I mentioned 'pitfalls' in the 2nd option because
>>>> I'm more concerned about them happening with a development version than the
>>>> stable branch. Here is how their development community describes the
>>>> release:
>>>>
>>>> As of version 1.5.1, we consider the development branch reasonably
>>>> stable, so it can be used for serious work by users who accept that not all
>>>>  *new*features are already working perfectly. Features already
>>>> available in the officially stable version will work *much* better in
>>>> 1.5.1+, though.
>>>>
>>>> I'm guessing idml support is one of the new features, but if importing
>>>> IDML files is one of the potential issues, I assume it would pop up as a
>>>> problem early on.
>>>>
>>>> Kathy
>>>>
>>>> On 01/03/2018 12:44 PM, Rogan Hamby wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I have some concerns about using a development version.  Do you have a
>>>> sense of how stable it's considered to be?
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jan 3, 2018 at 12:40 PM, Kathy Lussier <klussier at masslnc.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi all!
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for sending this along Rogan. I finally had a chance to look at
>>>>> using Scribus with Rogan's files today. The development version of Scribus
>>>>> (1.5.3) seems to handle idml file whereas the older, 1.4.x version of
>>>>> Scribus did not. The file does not import perfectly: fonts needed to be
>>>>> changed and we would need to adjust some of the layout, but I think I could
>>>>> turn it into something workable.
>>>>>
>>>>> There are two issues to consider then:
>>>>>
>>>>> - The original reason this topic arose was because of concerns that
>>>>> the font size was small, making it difficult to read the annual report.
>>>>> Last year's report is available at https://evergreen-ils.org/wp-c
>>>>> ontent/uploads/2017/03/Evergreen-Annual-Report-2016-Print-Version.pdf
>>>>> if anyone wants to look at it for context. This could be addressed by
>>>>> increasing the font size in the current layout, which will necessarily
>>>>> reduce the amount of content we can include, or by switching to a larger
>>>>> booklet. However, the issue with switching to the larger booklet, as Rogan
>>>>> noted below, is that it requires a lot of labor time. Rogan has already put
>>>>> in hours to create the current layout, and time is valuable.
>>>>>
>>>>> - The other issue is that the current report is done in Adobe
>>>>> InDesign, which, due to cost and OS support, is not available to most of
>>>>> us. This means that the work of creating the annual report always falls on
>>>>> Rogan's shoulders. By creating it in Scribus, which is open source, we
>>>>> might be able to divide up the work so that two or three of us are helping
>>>>> to put the report together. Even if we didn't change the layout of the
>>>>> report, it might not be a bad idea to consider this change so that we can
>>>>> divide and conquer.
>>>>>
>>>>> We have a few options.
>>>>>
>>>>> - We could decide to go with the current format (with or without font
>>>>> size changes) for this year and look at moving to Scribus for next year's
>>>>> report. If we start the work in the spring, it gives us time to
>>>>> troubleshoot any issues in time for the 2018 report.
>>>>>
>>>>> - I would be willing to commit to working on transferring the file to
>>>>> Scribus and the larger size before the February meeting. This would give
>>>>> us  layout to work with over February as we plug in the content. However, I
>>>>> can't guarantee that I won't find pitfalls along the way. If the pitfalls
>>>>> are too large, we would need to go back to the InDesign booklet, which
>>>>> would give Rogan less time to work on this year's report on his own
>>>>>
>>>>> - We could also decide to keep things as they are for now as it has
>>>>> been successful in generating a nice annual report.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm sure there are other options we can discuss during today's meeting.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks Rogan for all of your work on this!
>>>>> Kathy
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 12/29/2017 07:47 AM, Rogan Hamby wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Another quick follow up.  In looking at moving the work on the annual
>>>>> report to Scribus Kathy and I both did some research on migrating the file
>>>>> format.  My experience has been that the print layout world of software is
>>>>> fundamentally different in terms of exchanging data between applications
>>>>> then graphics and this is bearing out to be true.  Both of us found the
>>>>> same set of suggestions and neither are working for me in a way that would
>>>>> be useful.  The postscript export is per page not document and does not
>>>>> export embedded data.  The xml output is not parseable.  I'm still waiting
>>>>> to see if Kathy had any better luck but at this point that does not look
>>>>> like a viable option to me.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Nov 14, 2017 at 7:39 AM, Rogan Hamby <rogan.hamby at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Good morning,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There has been a little discussion off list about printing of the
>>>>>> annual report.  Last year we printed 250 saddle stitched trimmed to bleed
>>>>>> with a cover at 8.25x 5.75 with 100# gloss at full color.  Terri, at
>>>>>> Equinox, was kind enough to get me an updated quote for this year from the
>>>>>> same printer we used last year and an estimate for increasing the book
>>>>>> size.  The reason for the increase in the book size is that there have been
>>>>>> questions about increasing the font size of the report without decreasing
>>>>>> the amount of content.  The only way to do that is to increase the paper
>>>>>> size.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A new printing at last year's specifications is $985.55
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Increasing the paper size to 8.5 x 6 (which is a very small increase)
>>>>>> jumps to $1,228.60.  The cost has to be considered of course but it's not
>>>>>> my greatest concern.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> While I'm very sympathetic to the access issues it's necessary to
>>>>>> point out that we have attempted to keep labor time under some constraints
>>>>>> by reusing the same basic layout.  Print layout software isn't quite like
>>>>>> responsive web design and you can't just tell it a new paper size and have
>>>>>> everything re-adjust.  If we do go the route of a new paper size we need to
>>>>>> finalize this very soon and it will be a great deal of labor to implement.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Just to make it clear I am _not_ in favor of doing this.  We produce
>>>>>> a web friendly PDF so that it can easily be scaled and a limited print run
>>>>>> for the conference.  We can certainly increase font sizes an average 25%
>>>>>> but I don't think it will make for an attractive product.  However, I would
>>>>>> much rather do that than change the printed format of the report.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> evergreen-outreach mailing listevergreen-outreach at list.evergreen-ils.orghttp://list.evergreen-ils.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/evergreen-outreach
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Kathy Lussier
>>>>> Project Coordinator
>>>>> Massachusetts Library Network Cooperative(508) 343-0128klussier at masslnc.org
>>>>> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/kmlussier
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> evergreen-outreach mailing list
>>>>> evergreen-outreach at list.evergreen-ils.org
>>>>> http://list.evergreen-ils.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/everg
>>>>> reen-outreach
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Kathy Lussier
>>>> Project Coordinator
>>>> Massachusetts Library Network Cooperative(508) 343-0128klussier at masslnc.org
>>>> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/kmlussier
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> evergreen-outreach mailing list
>>> evergreen-outreach at list.evergreen-ils.org
>>> http://list.evergreen-ils.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/everg
>>> reen-outreach
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Ruth Frasur
>> Director of the Historic(ally Awesome) Hagerstown - Jefferson Township
>> Library
>> 10 W. College Street
>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=10+W.+College+Street&entry=gmail&source=g>
>> in Hagerstown, Indiana (47346)
>> p (765) 489-5632; f (765) 489-5808
>>
>> *Our Kickin' Website <http://hagerstownlibrary.org>,  Our Rockin'
>> Facebook Page <http://facebook.com/hjtplibrary>,  and The Nettle Creek
>> Players <http://nettlecreekplayers.com>*
>>
>
>

-- 
Ruth Frasur
Director of the Historic(ally Awesome) Hagerstown - Jefferson Township
Library
10 W. College Street in Hagerstown, Indiana (47346)
p (765) 489-5632; f (765) 489-5808

*Our Kickin' Website <http://hagerstownlibrary.org>,  Our Rockin' Facebook
Page <http://facebook.com/hjtplibrary>,  and The Nettle Creek Players
<http://nettlecreekplayers.com>*
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