[OPEN-ILS-GENERAL] ***SPAM*** Re: ***SPAM*** Re: Library Journal

[Lori Ayre]

Cynthia,

Excellent response.  Have you posted this anywhere that one can link to?  If
you have, please add a link to it at
http://wiki.code4lib.org/index.php/SirsiDynix:_Integrated_Library_System_Platforms_on_Open_Source
.

If you haven't, I'm happy to post it on our blog at opensource.califa.org.
Let me know if that would be alright.

Lori Ayre

On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 6:34 AM, Cynthia Williamson <crwbookgirl at gmail.com>wrote:

> Abram is indeed a salesman and I agree with the apologist label that
> someone else applied.  My first instinct was to ignore his document but
> considering that I could whip up this rebuttal in about 15 minutes, I can't
> resist sharing. I was just finishing this up when Frances sent the itwire
> rebuttal, I love that the non-library community is calling Abram on his
> dis-information campaign, thanks for sharing.  I almost didn't post this,
> but like I said, I can't resist.
> Please edit and add to it if ya like - we can create our own "Open Source
> for Libraries" document that is much more useful to libraries seeking a new
> ILS solution.
>
> Cheers, Cynthia
> Mohawk College
> Hamilon ON
> *
> TCO*:  We handled our own migration to EG, a possibility that Abram
> doesn't address. Our hardware costs were under $10,000CAD.  We migrated
> early in the last year of our support contract with our proprietary system -
> essentially having access to both systems for about 7 months.  We could
> never have afforded to do that if we'd been migrating to a new proprietary
> system.  Has it cost us in time?  Of course it has, but I once spent the
> better part of a year on a DRA to Dynix migration (not to mention the year
> before that dealing with the whole RFP & decision making process) *AND* we
> spent @ CAD$180,000.00 on hardware, software and training - that was many
> years ago and in a pretty small library system - I'd hate to think what a
> migration to an SD system would cost today. But of course I wouldn't know
> would I?  Those companies ask us to sign confidentiality documents around
> quotes.  We do have a develpment contract for some work from Equinox and no
> one has asked us to sign any confidientiality documents around the work or
> the quote.  The time investment in learning about Dynix hasn't helped me
> much with other systems - none of their standards or software are the same
> as anything else I've encountered. The time invested in learning about and
> implementing EG has given me sustainable, transferable knowlege that will
> help me and the institution I work for well into the future.   Oh and yes
> indeedy it is free like in kittens not beer but kittens last a lot longer
> than beer, much as I enjoy a good beer, kittens are a way better ROI, don't
> ya think?  Last on this point -  let's not forget about paying for own data
> when we migrate from one system to another - we won't have to do that if we
> ever migrate from EG.
>
> *Opportunity Costs:*  "Some software isn't compatible with open source".
> Is he kidding?  Like any proprietary system is compatable with all
> software!!!  We had to pay for extra programming to make sure our former
> mythical beast of an ILS was searchable in the federated search product that
> we chose.
>
> *SaaS* - FUD, total FUD mongering.  I have no comment.
>
> *Features and Functions:*  I'll admit that the EG cataloguing module isn't
> the most user friendly thing I've ever used but since 90% of our cataloguing
> is done by a vendor, it's not a great issue for us. We migrated from a
> pretty old SD OPAC so for us the EG OPAC is more feature rich but I get that
> there more bells and whistles in other SD products than the one we used.
> As for SD being the most robust and feature rich system on the market???
> Why did Georgia decide to build their own ILS?  Why is Queens PL suing SD
> over what are essentially broken promises???
>
> *Customization:* "Probably the most attractive claim by the open source
> community is its ability to be customized by anyone, for anyone. This claim
> is technically true."  I almost want to say 'nuff said.  But I can't help
> remembering being sold on being able to do minor customizations to Horizon,
> only to find that stuff we did would be undone by minor upgrades.  At least
> in EG we can track our own tweaks and just re-do them after an upgrade if
> need be and we'll know what tweaks won't go with an upgrade, instead of
> getting suprises because we made the tweaks and we can see the code.
>
> *Security: *I think this is just more FUD.  Others more qualified than me
> should address this if possible.  update based on itwire post:  the US DoD
> is embracing open source - think they'd do it if was generally not secure???
>
> *Networking:  *Doesn't relying on more open standards stand us in better
> stead?  Keeping up with changes to browsers and operating systems is
> difficult for all of us, proprietary or open source.
>
> *Necessary Expertise:*  I am aware of the budget cuts to libraries over
> the decades that caused us to lose systems and other positions over the
> years. So I lay no blame for giving up a lot of power over our own
> destinies.  But this loss has caused us to rely much too heavily on
> proprietary vendors methinks. I think that building the "necessary
> expertise" is crucial to the future of libraries. We are the organizing
> experts, as more and more digital repositories are created, more open
> publishing at our institutions happens, we need to be the ones who help with
> organizing and access to this stuff.  In many ways I agree with Clifford
> Lynch when he wonders about the cost and time and effort being spent to
> create something that essentially already exists.  But this is a case of
> going back to school, learning about our principles and standards either
> again or for the very first time - taking back ownership of our own systems
> is a very good thing.  If it feels like a step backwards to some, so be it,
> eventually it will lead to huge steps forward.
>
> *Testing: * I've said this once and I'll say it again, is he kidding??
> Those big proprietary systems are impossible to test thoroughly,  there is
> no one who is familiar with the entire history of their development. I
> remember a Horizon support guy telling me they'd never be able to release a
> new feature if they had to be completely & totally sure that it wouldn't
> break anything.  We're all familiar with waiting for others to apply patches
> and do upgrades first to avoid that early adopter disaster.  This is
> actually the way of a lot of software isn't it? Early adopters do take their
> chances. At least right now, the EG and KOHA developers are all pretty
> intimately familiar with their systems and if they don't catch "breaks" that
> will be caused by an upgrade before they happen, they'll often be able to
> get to the source and fix it with a really good patch, not a quick fix that
> causes other problems, etc. etc. etc.
>
> *Integration:*  Mostly agree with what he says here, but would add that
> with Open Source you're more likely to be able to understand compatability
> issues 'cause you can see the code!!
>
> *Community Driven:  *I suppose I can concede that there is a big, mostly
> thriving Sirsi Dynix community but has anyone ever rec'd a reply to a query
> or problem almost instantly from SD developers???
>
> *Scalability:*  I think he goes into territory he doesn't know much about
> here. Remember that Georgia didn't have enough confidence in any of the
> proprieatry systems in that department. Yes EG was developed for a specific
> consortium but Conifer and BC Sitka and others exist so the specifics for
> Georgia haven't made it impossible for other consortiums to use EG.
>
> *Speed:*  This is such a red herring.  So many things can cause speed
> issues it is almost impossible to decide that one system is faster than
> another.  Our EG system is totally zippy - but I know better than to say
> that is way faster than the mythical beast that we left because we were part
> of a consortium using a pretty old version of the OPAC - apples to oranges.
>
> *Reliability:*  I truly don't know how he has the nerve to discuss
> reliability.  Think of what SD did to their Horizon customers. I still
> struggle to contain my outrage about that and my library wasn't directly
> affected!!  That DRA to Dynix migration I participated in?  Forced, by the
> end of the life of DRA.  No software is totally reliable ... at least if the
> EG community dies or forks irrevocably, we have our data and our system and
> can keep it running just fine while we decide what to do next.
>
> *Open Source and Libraries: * More FUD.  Lynch has already clarified what
> he was saying.  Libraries need to explore open source and proprietary
> solutions and based on their needs, I don't think it is a matter of open
> source all the time but I gotta admit, we look for those first.
>
> *SD on Open Source:*  Who cares?? - just like I wouldn't listen to the
> tobacco industry about smoking I'm not going to take advice on open source
> from a company who stands to gain by turning libraries away from open source
> solutions.
>
> *Caveat emptor indeed!*  I totally agree with him on that one and it is
> why I would not go near SD with a ten foot pole, given a choice.
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 9:23 PM, Deanna Frazee <dfrazee at ci.killeen.tx.us>wrote:
>
>> I'm hoping this might help the library industry quit touting Abrams as a
>> visionary among librarians.  He's a degreed librarian, but he's been a
>> corporate guy for so long that I have my doubts that he is all that in touch
>> with the realities of working in a library now.
>>
>> Visionary? No.  More like salesperson.
>>
>> Deanna Frazee
>> Killeen City Library System
>>
>> ________________________________
>>
>> From: open-ils-general-bounces at list.georgialibraries.org on behalf of
>> Schultz, Monica
>> Sent: Thu 11/5/2009 7:27 PM
>> To: Evergreen Discussion Group
>> Subject: Re: [OPEN-ILS-GENERAL] Library Journal
>>
>>
>>
>> Plus is great marketing for OSS, you know what they say "there is no bad
>> marketing" lol...
>>
>> Monica M. Schultz
>> PLS IT Director
>> Tel: 650.356-2120
>> Fax: 650.349.5089
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: open-ils-general-bounces at list.georgialibraries.org [mailto:
>> open-ils-general-bounces at list.georgialibraries.org] On Behalf Of Mark
>> Jordan
>> Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 5:29 PM
>> To: open-ils-general at list.georgialibraries.org
>> Subject: Re: [OPEN-ILS-GENERAL] Library Journal
>>
>> C'mon guys, I think spreading FUD is a perfectly natural response from a
>> company that has lost customers to OSS ILSs.
>>
>> Mark
>>
>> Mark Jordan
>> Head of Library Systems
>> W.A.C. Bennett Library, Simon Fraser University
>> Burnaby, British Columbia, V5A 1S6, Canada
>> Voice: 778.782.5753 / Fax: 778.782.3023
>> mjordan at sfu.ca
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would
> be a merrier world.
> J. R. R. Tolkien
>
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