[OPEN-ILS-GENERAL] ***SPAM*** Re: ***SPAM*** Re: Should we have a systems administrators list?

[Lazar, Alexey Vladimirovich]

I agree with Rogan.  I think the idea is to have a discussion more focused on system administration issues, rather then purely development, which is currently defined as the sole purpose of the dev list.  Even though there likely would be membership overlap, having a sysadmin list would allow to focus specifically on the topic and not add "noise" on the dev list for those who are interested in the development only.

Alexey Lazar
PALS
Information System Developer and Integrator
507-389-2907
http://www.mnpals.org/

On May 1, 2012, at 13:58 , <rogan.hamby at yclibrary.net>
 <rogan.hamby at yclibrary.net> wrote:

> 
> Personally, I didn't envision a sys-admin group as a siloing but as an opportunity for sys-admins to work on best practices and things that may be redundant or repetitive on the dev list.  I can easily see conversations about how do we maintain 2.1 because we don't want to upgrade to 2.2 and are there selective patches we can use, etc.... which are the kinds of conversations we don't see a lot of now.
> 
> If the practice were to fork the community rather than grow the dialogues, which is to say, take away from dev useful conversations about how and why that inform development then I would be -1.
> 
> Quoting "W. Brad LaJeunesse" <brad at esilibrary.com>:
> 
>> I agree with Ben. Obviously, if a certain community sub-group decides it
>> wants to create their own mailing list, there is no Evergreen police to stop
>> you, but I think doing so is a mistake.
>> 
>> One of the strengths of the Evergreen community that I think we've worked at
>> is the lack of formal boundaries between our stakeholder groups. This isn't
>> a proprietary system where the developers are locked in a dungeon  and you
>> must speak through Swiss intermediaries. We're also a relatively small group
>> and I think the last thing we should be doing is splitting our forces. I
>> suggest keeping it together and using subject lines effectively.
>> 
>> So, I agree with Ben's thoughts. I just saw Lebbeous's email and I agree
>> with his points as well.
>> 
>> ---
>> W. Brad LaJeunesse
>> | President
>> | Equinox Software, Inc. / The Open Source Experts
>> | phone: 1-877-OPEN-ILS (673-6457)
>> | email: brad at esilibrary.com
>> | web: http://www.esilibrary.com
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: open-ils-general-bounces at list.georgialibraries.org
>> [mailto:open-ils-general-bounces at list.georgialibraries.org] On Behalf Of Ben
>> Shum
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2012 12:15 PM
>> To: Evergreen Discussion Group
>> Subject: [OPEN-ILS-GENERAL] ***SPAM*** Re: Should we have a systems
>> administrators list?
>> 
>> I'm -1 to this proposal.
>> 
>> For many years, I've mused with other Evergreen system administrators on the
>> issues facing our particular role and areas for discussion.  The idea of
>> making our own mailing list seemed like a good idea at many points in those
>> discussions, and if you asked me a few years ago, I would have said yes.
>> 
>> But here are some potential concerns I have now:
>> 
>> While our role within our organizations may be to find the best practices
>> for implementing/running an Evergreen system (and all the related areas of
>> interest noted), we can also have a key role to play in Evergreen's overall
>> development.  As system administrators, we are often at the cutting edge of
>> testing, bug reporting, and troubleshooting how Evergreen performs in the
>> field.  We can provide invaluable feedback to the Evergreen developers when
>> we discuss our sys-admin issues in the existing lists / IRC.
>> 
>> 
>> Creating a separate list introduces the possibility that more information
>> can become lost between groups if people do not subscribe to every list.
>> While of course, many of us would likely be signed up to these multiple
>> lists and potentially act as representatives between groups, I do not like
>> to see the burden of communication between various lists/groups to become a
>> necessary conscious act on behalf of those subscribed to several lists.
>> 
>> Like say for example:
>> 
>> John Smith has an installation problem and mentions it only on the sys admin
>> list.  But it turns out to be an actual issue with the Evergreen code itself
>> and we have to involve developers to get it fixed for everyone in the
>> community.  Do we then have to take the originally reported issue from the
>> sys admin list and forward it to the dev list and discuss solutions?  The
>> extra time and potential for lost information/facts gives me concerns that
>> having that extra layer of communication may prove unwieldy.
>> 
>> Alternatively, what if someone posted a question to both mailing lists (sys
>> admin and dev) and different people respond on each thread (based on
>> whichever list they were subscribed) and the conversation becomes fractured
>> between two lists?  How does everything get put back together in a nice
>> ordered way for the next generation of users searching for information /
>> learning.
>> 
>> To summarize, in my opinion, the system administrators while definitely
>> having their own set of issues and topics of discussion are still a core
>> part of the overall Evergreen development community and we should
>> participate using the same areas for discussion such as the dev mailing list
>> and IRC so that we don't miss anything or leave anything out of the
>> mainstream Evergreen community.  The main thing I would want to change at
>> this point in time is perhaps the wording used to describe the dev mailing
>> list to expand beyond just technical code/patches, but to be a broader
>> description and reinforce the "technical discussion list"
>> title.  Unless of course, the developers tell us that they'd prefer to keep
>> that list to talking only about real development only...  ;)
>> 
>> -- Ben
>> 
>> On 4/30/2012 8:11 PM, Justin Hopkins wrote:
>>> We just wrapped up the post-conference systems administrator training,
>>> which was awesome. Afterwards we were talking about the utility of a
>>> new discussion list focused on Evergreen systems administration.
>>> 
>>> I think the topic is deep enough to warrant a list, and if this group
>>> is any indication there is also sufficient interest. Systems
>>> administration (troubleshooting server config issues,
>>> installing/setting up Evergreen, using git, performance tuning,
>>> network issues, cluster configuration, security, etc) seems to be an
>>> area that deserves it's own forum. I've received plenty of great help
>>> on those topics in IRC, which I'm very appreciative of, but let's face
>>> it - IRC is and probably always will be the domain of developers.
>>> 
>>> I'm hoping that if enough people on this list express an interest that
>>> someone (Chris Sharp?) could create such a list. So let's hear it
>>> sysads - should we create the "missing list"?
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> Justin Hopkins
>>> Coordinator, IT&  Web Services
>>> MOBIUS Consortium Office
>>> c: 573-808-2309
>>> 
>>> --sent from a mobile device--
>>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Benjamin Shum
>> Open Source Software Coordinator
>> Bibliomation, Inc.
>> 32 Crest Road
>> Middlebury, CT 06762
>> 203-577-4070, ext. 113
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----------------------
> Rogan Hamby
> Manager Rock Hill Library & Reference Services
> York County Library System
> 
> "Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark
> to read." - Groucho Marx