[OPEN-ILS-GENERAL] ***SPAM*** Re: ***SPAM*** Re: Awesome Box Integration

[Ruth Frasur]

+1

On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 10:55 AM, Rogan Hamby <rogan.hamby at yclibrary.net>
wrote:

> FWIW, there isn't any reason for patron data to be exposed and privacy
> issue on a display level here.  The privacy discussion is really a
> distraction from the Awesome Box discussion in my opinion.  Some libraries
> may anonymize (or wipe) older data while others don't but that data
> existing and using it under the hood is a totally different thing from
> exposing it users (my point).  Now if you do wipe it you obviously don't
> want to suddenly have features that depend on it, an important point for
> those who do wipe it (and I wonder if their libraries are expressly exempt
> from record retention laws) but that was Kathy's point about
> configurability.  And even if you did use historical circulations
> integrated for awesome box that doesn't mean it has to be used the same way
> for all type of users with different anonymization of data.  Of course, I
> doubt that some who think their data is wiped understand that it probably
> is not.  Evergreen does not natively erase or anonymize old information,
> it's just inaccessible to casual users, which is not the same as not
> existing.  That's a fairly common mistake for users not familiar with the
> database layer.
>
> Clear as mud?  So, as I said I suspect that if we don't want to completely
> derail this with tangents it's probably best to put the privacy issue aside
> and look at Awesome box features not tied to patron specific data.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 10:44 AM, Ruth Frasur <
> director at hagerstownlibrary.org> wrote:
>
>> I don't have anything of value to add to this other than while, of
>> course, I love the idea of reader recommendations and Awesome Box
>> integration in any form, I also think there would HAVE to be some type of
>> anonymizing (sp?) of patron data.  I don't think this is impossible BUT, as
>> Rogan has said, there is a definite danger of project creep.  My
>> suggestion, fwiw, is to find some first/second step for Awesome Box
>> integration and focus more on building a foundation (that may or may not
>> have truly visible/useful features for end users) on which others (or other
>> projects) could expand.
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 11:56 PM, Rogan Hamby <rogan.hamby at yclibrary.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm concerned with project creep as well as I noted in one of early
>>> missives.  If this is stored independent of patron data (which actually I
>>> think it should) then I think we should also track circs since the feature
>>> was turned on so it could say "3 out of 4" people found it awesome.
>>>
>>> Stepping back a bit to recommendations and anonymizing records, we don't
>>> anonymize historical circs.  We don't expose that data and take staff level
>>> access to it pretty seriously.  Due to varying state and county regulations
>>> dictating minimum record retentions we're still at least 2 years out from
>>> being to safely wipe our oldest records.  Maybe more.
>>>
>>> And anonymizing it closes certain opportunities.  Some are mundane like
>>> addressing old conflicts and billing questions but those can be big in
>>> their own right.  As the circ manager who talks to the upset patron I may
>>> have a different point of view on that.  :)
>>>
>>> Analyzing circulation patterns is far more interesting though and I am
>>> long term interested in recommendations.  In the age of Anazin, Netflix and
>>> everyone else this is not just valuable but expected.  It's perhaps the
>>> patron request I hear most.
>>>
>>> Coupled with some holds features it would be a great great boon for home
>>> bound services which I feel are a critical function of libraries, at least
>>> in my state where it's a strong traditional service.  I assume elsewhere as
>>> well though I know mileage varies.
>>>
>>> And it was the building block of several functions that GA PINES
>>> identified as critical for TBS support during the Loblolly conference.  We
>>> may never fully support TBS programs in Evergreen but I thought GA PINES
>>> collected a lot of great ideas and input there and would hate to discard
>>> that.
>>>
>>> On Thursday, September 25, 2014, Kathy Lussier <klussier at masslnc.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>  Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> Great discussion so far!
>>>>
>>>> We had a bit of a discussion about privacy concerns in IRC after Terran
>>>> sent her original message. One approach we were discussing was storing the
>>>> awesome tags in an anonymous fashion, except in cases where patrons have
>>>> opted into saving their circ history. In those cases, the user has already
>>>> consented to having this information saved and could have a more enhanced
>>>> experience with the recommendation engine. Others who were part of the
>>>> discussion could elaborate or correct me if I'm not articulating the ideas
>>>> correctly. The discussion can be found at
>>>> http://irc.evergreen-ils.org/evergreen/2014-09-25#i_126632.
>>>>
>>>> In relation to genres, Vanya said:
>>>>
>>>> Maybe, as a solution to that, we can have a hierarchical algorithm for
>>>> categorizing. In other words, we can allow the administrator to decide
>>>> whether the categorization comes all the way down to genres, or just takes
>>>> into account the overall weight of the user's awesome tag.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I like the idea of making this configurable, because there may be
>>>> systems where data identifying genre is a little more clear cut. Better
>>>> yet, how about if we allow an Evergreen site to define the categories that
>>>> are used. Some sites may use the MARC fixed fields for fiction/non-fiction.
>>>> Other sites may decided that values stored in the 655 MARC field work for
>>>> them.
>>>>
>>>> Is there something already exists in Evergreen that we could leverage
>>>> for this purpose? My first thought was MVF.
>>>>
>>>> I do have one general recommendation speaking with my OPW admin hat on.
>>>> It really is a  general recommendation for any of the OPW candidates who
>>>> might be following along. I mentioned in IRC today that I'm not a
>>>> developer, but I've managed a lot of development projects, and one thing I
>>>> try to watch out for is project creep. As we continue to talk about the
>>>> project and think of new configuration options to make it a more flexible
>>>> project, it can also become a very large project that isn't as easy to
>>>> manage.
>>>>
>>>> Therefore, as you think through how you plan to implement the project,
>>>> I recommend breaking it up into distinct milestones. You might want to
>>>> start with smaller tasks as you ease into the project (e.g. collecting the
>>>> awesome tags and sending them along to the Awesome Box site), and then move
>>>> on to the larger components once you become more familiar with the system.
>>>>
>>>> Kathy
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Kathy Lussier
>>>> Project Coordinator
>>>> Massachusetts Library Network Cooperative(508) 343-0128klussier at masslnc.org
>>>> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/kmlussier
>>>> #evergreen IRC: kmlussier
>>>>
>>>> On 9/25/2014 6:40 PM, Tim Spindler wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Overall, I really like the ideas talked about but I agree with Terran
>>>> that something would have to be done with circ data related to patrons.  We
>>>> use the purge function to anonymize our patron data but I could see other
>>>> ways of dealing with this.   We also have retention policies related to
>>>> retaining patron circulation data.
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 4:54 PM, Rogan Hamby <rogan.hamby at yclibrary.net
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I suppose I don't understand the concern on your part as at that level
>>>>> if someone could access the raw db they could just query someone's
>>>>> circulation history, fine payments, etc... since those are recorded as
>>>>> transactions unless you're doing something to anonymize or wipe those as
>>>>> soon as they're done.  Even then someone could see all current transactions
>>>>> at that level.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 4:33 PM, McCanna, Terran <
>>>>> tmccanna at georgialibraries.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> This relies on the circulation and rating data still being tied to
>>>>>> the patron in the system, though - yes, it'd be on the database side and
>>>>>> not on public view, but it's still creating a picture of a patron's reading
>>>>>> history that has privacy implications. Of course, this feature should be
>>>>>> set for systems to enable or disable, so that systems that are concerned
>>>>>> about privacy simply won't turn it on. (PINES, for example, limits the
>>>>>> retention of circulation history in the system as much as we can because of
>>>>>> our privacy policies, so any feature that is linked to a patron's history
>>>>>> would be unusable for us.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If ranking data were stored completely independently of the patron,
>>>>>> then library systems would be able to use it without privacy concerns, and
>>>>>> patrons wouldn't even need to be logged in to use it  - but then it
>>>>>> wouldn't be able to give completely customized recommendations to a
>>>>>> specific patron, either. It's a definite tradeoff.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Terran McCanna
>>>>>> PINES Program Manager
>>>>>> Georgia Public Library Service
>>>>>> 1800 Century Place, Suite 150
>>>>>> Atlanta, GA 30345
>>>>>> 404-235-7138
>>>>>> tmccanna at georgialibraries.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Vanya Jauhal" <vanyajauhal at gmail.com>
>>>>>> To: "Evergreen Discussion Group" <
>>>>>> open-ils-general at list.georgialibraries.org>
>>>>>>  Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2014 3:41:02 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [OPEN-ILS-GENERAL] Awesome Box Integration
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello Rogan
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is exactly what I had in mind. All the recommendation processing
>>>>>> will take place in background, and all the user will see is a
>>>>>> recommendation and not the information of any other patron. This way his
>>>>>> experience with Awesome Box will get enhanced.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And yes, we can maybe, start off with some broad level genres, like,
>>>>>> as you mentioned, fiction, non-fiction, documentaries, etc. Then, depending
>>>>>> upon the infrastructure of the system and the response of that
>>>>>> categorization, we can build upon the algorithm accordingly.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You are right- it would be a big task in itself, but since the number
>>>>>> of parameters involved are few and explicit, it gets simplified to an
>>>>>> extent.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 12:50 AM, Rogan Hamby <
>>>>>> rogan.hamby at yclibrary.net > wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't see an issue with doing analysis of circulation patterns on
>>>>>> the backend so long as nothing identifying is exposed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For example, if all I saw as a patron was a tab in my opac that said
>>>>>> "you thought The Yiddish Policeman's Union was Awesome! Some others do did
>>>>>> also thought this was Awesome .... " I don't see that as different from
>>>>>> doing the same thing with circulations. It's not telling patrons even what
>>>>>> the points of comparison were unless they only had a single item in their
>>>>>> circulation history and even then it doesn't tell them how many other
>>>>>> patrons, how much, etc....
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm dubious about subject headings also but wouldn't want to dismiss
>>>>>> it out of hand. It might work. Without doing some experimenting I could see
>>>>>> it going either way. Some fixed fields I could see working, like fiction
>>>>>> and non-fiction. Age groups? Well, at least I can tell you I can't rely on
>>>>>> those in my catalog. :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> However, I also worry that reading recommendations based on
>>>>>> circulation history could easily grow into a much more complicated task,
>>>>>> especially depending on how we deliver those recommendations. Looking at a
>>>>>> single boolean value tied to the user and item (circ table?) could still be
>>>>>> quite a project by itself especially once all the useful bits and pieces
>>>>>> are built in.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 2:37 PM, McCanna, Terran <
>>>>>> tmccanna at georgialibraries.org > wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Agreed - it's a great idea in theory, but I'm not sure how well it
>>>>>> would work in actual practice. Even in a single library, genre subject
>>>>>> headings are usually pretty inconsistent in the MARC records because of
>>>>>> copy cataloging, and that usually gets even more inconsistent in a
>>>>>> consortium of libraries. Perhaps it could be partially weighted on genre
>>>>>> subject headings, but not overly reliant on them? It might be worth
>>>>>> considering the fixed field values for fiction vs. non-fiction and for age
>>>>>> groups, too.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I love the idea of providing recommendations based on other people
>>>>>> that have similar taste ("other people that liked this book also liked
>>>>>> these books...") but if the data is tied to actual patrons (and I'm not
>>>>>> sure how it couldn't be) then quite a few library systems would face legal
>>>>>> privacy issues and wouldn't be able to use it. We're currently using a
>>>>>> commercial service to pull in reading recommendations because the
>>>>>> recommendations can't be tied back to any of our patrons.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Terran McCanna
>>>>>> PINES Program Manager
>>>>>> Georgia Public Library Service
>>>>>> 1800 Century Place, Suite 150
>>>>>> Atlanta, GA 30345
>>>>>> 404-235-7138
>>>>>> tmccanna at georgialibraries.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Rogan Hamby" < rogan.hamby at yclibrary.net >
>>>>>> To: "Evergreen Discussion Group" <
>>>>>> open-ils-general at list.georgialibraries.org >
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2014 2:02:58 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [OPEN-ILS-GENERAL] Awesome Box Integration
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I can see some challenges to tracking genre and I'd be hesitant to
>>>>>> put too much value on it. There are ways to catalog it but in my experience
>>>>>> actually relying on it being in records (much less being consistent) is
>>>>>> very unreliable in organizations that do a lot of copy cataloging / don't
>>>>>> have centralized and controlled cataloging and there quite a few in that
>>>>>> boat.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That concern aside, I've always thought this would be a fun and
>>>>>> potentially valuable thing to add.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 1:44 PM, Vanya Jauhal < vanyajauhal at gmail.com
>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello everyone
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm Vanya, from India. I'm a candidate for OPW Round9 internship with
>>>>>> evergreen.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> While discussing the idea of Awesome Box integration with Evergreen,
>>>>>> Kathy and I discussed the possibility of making the Evergreen support for
>>>>>> Awesome Box more interpretive using Artificial Intelligence.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What if we could train the system to give weightage to people's
>>>>>> "awesome" tags on items, depending upon how much their previous tags are
>>>>>> appreciated by other people.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For example: Let's say you tag a book to be awesome. Now, if 100
>>>>>> other people check that book in, and (lets say) 80 of them also tag it to
>>>>>> be awesome- it will mean that your opinion matches a majority of people. On
>>>>>> the other hand, if 100 other people check that book in and (say) only 5 of
>>>>>> them tag it as awesome, this would mean that your awesome tag is not in
>>>>>> coherence with the majority.
>>>>>> So, in the former case, your awesome tag can be given more weightage
>>>>>> as compared to the latter.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Also, the weightage may vary according to genres. So- you may have a
>>>>>> good taste in mystery books but your taste in classical literature might
>>>>>> not be the same as the majority crowd. So- the weightage of your awesome
>>>>>> tag in mystery would be higher than classical literature.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We can even extend it to provide recommendations to users depending
>>>>>> on their coherence with other users with similar taste.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am looking forward to your suggestions and feedback on this.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank you for your time
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Vanya
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Rogan Hamby, MLS, CCNP, MIA
>>>>>> Managers Headquarters Library and Reference Services,
>>>>>> York County Library System
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> “You can never get a cup of tea large enough or a book long enough to
>>>>>> suit me.”
>>>>>> ― C.S. Lewis
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Rogan Hamby, MLS, CCNP, MIA
>>>>>> Managers Headquarters Library and Reference Services,
>>>>>> York County Library System
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> “You can never get a cup of tea large enough or a book long enough to
>>>>>> suit me.”
>>>>>> ― C.S. Lewis
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  --
>>>>>
>>>>> Rogan Hamby, MLS, CCNP, MIA
>>>>> Managers Headquarters Library and Reference Services,
>>>>> York County Library System
>>>>>
>>>>>  “You can never get a cup of tea large enough or a book long enough
>>>>> to suit me.”
>>>>> ― C.S. Lewis <http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/1069006.C_S_Lewis>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Tim Spindler
>>>> tjspindler at gmail.com
>>>>
>>>>  *P**   Go Green - **Save a tree! Please don't print this e-mail
>>>> unless it's really necessary.*
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Rogan Hamby, MLS, CCNP, MIA
>>> Managers Headquarters Library and Reference Services,
>>> York County Library System
>>>
>>> “You can never get a cup of tea large enough or a book long enough to
>>> suit me.”
>>> ― C.S. Lewis <http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/1069006.C_S_Lewis>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Ruth Frasur
>> Director of the Historic(ally Awesome) Hagerstown - Jefferson Township
>> Library
>> 10 W. College Street in Hagerstown, Indiana (47346)
>> p (765) 489-5632; f (765) 489-5808
>>
>> Our Kickin' Website <http://hagerstownlibrary.org>  Our Rockin' Facebook
>> Page <http://facebook.com/hjtplibrary>  and Stuff I'm Reading
>> <http://pinterest.com/hjtplibrary/ruth-reads/>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
>
> Rogan Hamby, MLS, CCNP, MIA
> Managers Headquarters Library and Reference Services,
> York County Library System
>
> “You can never get a cup of tea large enough or a book long enough to suit
> me.”
> ― C.S. Lewis <http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/1069006.C_S_Lewis>
>



-- 
Ruth Frasur
Director of the Historic(ally Awesome) Hagerstown - Jefferson Township
Library
10 W. College Street in Hagerstown, Indiana (47346)
p (765) 489-5632; f (765) 489-5808

Our Kickin' Website <http://hagerstownlibrary.org>  Our Rockin' Facebook
Page <http://facebook.com/hjtplibrary>  and Stuff I'm Reading
<http://pinterest.com/hjtplibrary/ruth-reads/>
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