[OPEN-ILS-GENERAL] Help for a tiny library?
Joe
knuevejo at oplin.org
Mon Jan 19 11:36:30 EST 2015
The hosted solution does look interesting, though it sounds like the
library's finances would not extend to $500 annually..
(it looks like the trial version is only good for 30 days?)
In a similar vein if money were tight but not non-existent, Biblionix
looks good too, and depending on how well they scale down, might price
competitively..
Ben, if it were me I would take a closer look at OpenBiblio. Many moons
ago (say nearly 10 years ago) I seem to recall installing OpenBiblio on
my Windows XP desktop to the point of having it up and running for the
sake of testing and seeing what it was like.
It can be installed on just a Windows computer using XAMPP.
(instructions are at
http://osilms.pbworks.com/w/page/6466900/openbiblio%20installation )
From my recollection it was at the time one of the first times I played
around with something that ideally runs in a LAMP environment
(linux+apache+mysql+php/perl). I don't recall it taking a hateful
amount of time to figure out XAMPP or Openbiblio's own software. So, if
you use Ubuntu for your everyday desktop, and are as you said mildly
tech savvy this might be a worth while experiment.
I'll admit, in an ideal world it would be on a dedicated linux server
with an internet connection for the public to search the catalog, but in
the limited circumstances we're talking about, having it on a single
Windows computer I would think would a lot better than pencil and paper,
and I can't see it working any slower than pencil and paper, even if the
Windows PC has to grind a bit to handle the databases and such.
I agree about Ben's view on a VMs with non-tech savvy users, VMs can
certainly be used in production environments, but in situations where
the end-user never knows whether they're connecting to a physical
computer or a VM.
As much as I hate to admit it, because I love Evergreen and would prefer
to see as many Evergreen libraries as possible, installing it is not for
the faint of heart. I've tried once to install it for the sake of
having a sandbox installation, being in a consortium where others
administer our production servers and in that attempt I couldn't get
past getting xulrunner installed properly. I probably need to be
working on it with the IRC open on a second computer, probably during
hours when the sys admins here in North America are online and I can ask
questions of the folks who actually know what they're doing with it...
Best of luck, and have a good day.
Joe
Joseph Knueven
Director
Germantown Public Library
51 N. Plum St.
Germantown, OH 45327
937-855-4001
knuevejo at oplin.org
On 1/19/2015 9:30 AM, Ruth Frasur wrote:
> Just a brief addition. This looked interesting. It's basically
> turnkey and a hosted solution. As you can see, I linked the
> pricing/features page. Why not get straight to the bottom line? I +1
> Terran's fundraising idea.
>
> http://www.libraryworld.com/pricing.html
>
> On Sun, Jan 18, 2015 at 7:19 PM, McCanna, Terran
> <tmccanna at georgialibraries.org <mailto:tmccanna at georgialibraries.org>>
> wrote:
>
> Ben,
>
> Ouch, I didn't see Surpass's price tag. There's something called
> ResourceMate that has a "Lite" edition for $295, and another
> called PrimaSoft Small Library Organizer Pro for $245, both of
> which are designed for very small libraries to run on a single
> machine. Again, I haven't used either, but they might be worth
> investigating. Maybe you could do a bit of fundraising so you
> don't have to pay out of pocket?
>
> Good luck!
>
>
> Terran McCanna
> PINES Program Manager
> Georgia Public Library Service
> 1800 Century Place, Suite 150
> Atlanta, GA 30345
> 404-235-7138 <tel:404-235-7138>
> tmccanna at georgialibraries.org <mailto:tmccanna at georgialibraries.org>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ben T." <t.ben38 at gmail.com <mailto:t.ben38 at gmail.com>>
> To: "Evergreen Discussion Group"
> <open-ils-general at list.georgialibraries.org
> <mailto:open-ils-general at list.georgialibraries.org>>
> Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2015 6:39:17 PM
> Subject: Re: [OPEN-ILS-GENERAL] Help for a tiny library?
>
> Thank you for all the responses.
>
> Rogan, you inferences are generally correct. I do not have much
> experience. I have worked with virtual machines before, and I use
> Ubuntu
> on my personal computer, but I have never really been a sys
> admin. As for
> time, I do not have much time per week, but I have a soft deadline
> to make
> something work by June. So I possibly could set up a VM and make this
> work. However, our computer is shared with a bunch of volunteers
> at the
> community center, many of whom are not very computer literate. My
> intuition tells me that a VM would not survive meddling from other
> folks.
> So if a VM is the only available solution with Evergreen, I think
> I will
> keep looking.
>
> Terran, Surpass looks amazing, except for the ~$3000 price tag on it.
> Anything purchased is likely coming out of my pocket at this
> point, and
> there is no way I can afford that.
>
> Yunus, Openbiblio also looks good, except it runs into the same server
> problem that evergreen does.
>
> So I think I'll keep looking for solutions. Thanks, everyone.
>
> On Sun, Jan 18, 2015 at 1:47 PM, Rogan Hamby
> <rogan.hamby at yclibrary.net <mailto:rogan.hamby at yclibrary.net>>
> wrote:
>
> > It does still require Linux skills as it's a virtual machine
> whether he
> > has that skill set or is willing to invest the time to learn it is a
> > pre-requisite, something I wouldn't assume from the question.
> >
> > On Sun, Jan 18, 2015 at 12:12 PM, Mark Ehle <markehle at gmail.com
> <mailto:markehle at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> >> Ben did say he was decently tech savvy and asked for a way to run
> >> Evergreen on a pc. VirtualBox fits the bill.
> >>
> >> On Sun, Jan 18, 2015 at 12:08 PM, McCanna, Terran <
> >> tmccanna at georgialibraries.org
> <mailto:tmccanna at georgialibraries.org>> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Regardless of whether it's feasible in a Windows VM
> environment or not,
> >>> I really think that Evergreen is too complicated to set up and
> maintain for
> >>> someone who doesn't have a strong skillset in system
> administration. A
> >>> hosted ILS would be a better option, but a lot of tiny
> libraries can't
> >>> afford that either.
> >>>
> >>> Personally, if I were in Ben's position, I would investigate
> some of the
> >>> library automation system offerings that are designed
> specifically for
> >>> small libraries. Does anyone have any experience with Surpass?
> I haven't
> >>> used it, but it looks like it was designed for tiny libraries
> (less than
> >>> 5000 items) and has a standalone license option for running on
> a single
> >>> non-networked PC: http://www.surpasssoftware.com/surpass-sl.html.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Terran McCanna
> >>> PINES Program Manager
> >>> Georgia Public Library Service
> >>> 1800 Century Place, Suite 150
> >>> Atlanta, GA 30345
> >>> 404-235-7138 <tel:404-235-7138>
> >>> tmccanna at georgialibraries.org
> <mailto:tmccanna at georgialibraries.org>
> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>> From: "Mark Ehle" <markehle at gmail.com <mailto:markehle at gmail.com>>
> >>> To: "Evergreen Discussion Group" <
> >>> open-ils-general at list.georgialibraries.org
> <mailto:open-ils-general at list.georgialibraries.org>>
> >>> Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2015 11:26:53 AM
> >>> Subject: Re: [OPEN-ILS-GENERAL] Help for a tiny library?
> >>>
> >>> We ran everything in VirtualBox for a long time. Is it the PC
> hardware
> >>> you
> >>> object to? Or just VM's in general.
> >>>
> >>> On Sun, Jan 18, 2015 at 11:24 AM, Mark Ehle
> <markehle at gmail.com <mailto:markehle at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> > When you have quad-core PC's with 8gb of ram, the difference
> is not
> >>> that
> >>> > much. I've run production VM's on my PC in a pinch and our
> staff never
> >>> > knew.
> >>> >
> >>> > What do you suggest Ben does?
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > On Sun, Jan 18, 2015 at 11:12 AM, Rogan Hamby <
> >>> rogan.hamby at yclibrary.net <mailto:rogan.hamby at yclibrary.net>>
> >>> > wrote:
> >>> >
> >>> >> Hi Mark,
> >>> >>
> >>> >> There is a big difference between running a production
> system on a
> >>> >> desktop VM and playing with it. Running Evergreen in
> Virtual Box is
> >>> common
> >>> >> for developers, documenters, etc....
> >>> >>
> >>> >> And it's important for those who don't have a systems
> background that
> >>> a
> >>> >> VM in a server environment and throwing up a VM on a
> desktop with
> >>> limited
> >>> >> resources are very different things.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> On Sun, Jan 18, 2015 at 11:00 AM, Mark Ehle
> <markehle at gmail.com <mailto:markehle at gmail.com>>
> >>> wrote:
> >>> >>
> >>> >>> Not at all dubious, Rogan. We run Sirsi Symphony as a VM
> and have
> >>> been
> >>> >>> for years. We pretty much don't run our servers on
> anything else
> >>> *but*
> >>> >>> VM's. It's just how things are done now. I've run Evergreen in
> >>> Virtual Box
> >>> >>> (totally free) on my PC to play with it and it works just
> fine.
> >>> Given a
> >>> >>> decent enough PC,mainly enough memory, I'm sure you could run
> >>> Evergreen on
> >>> >>> a VM for a few clients for a small library.
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> On Sun, Jan 18, 2015 at 10:49 AM, Rogan Hamby <
> >>> rogan.hamby at yclibrary.net <mailto:rogan.hamby at yclibrary.net>
> >>> >>> > wrote:
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>>> Hi Ben,
> >>> >>>>
> >>> >>>> This was alluded to but to be clear, Evergreen isn't Windows
> >>> software.
> >>> >>>> Evergreen was built to run on Linux and is commonly run
> on Debian
> >>> though I
> >>> >>>> know it's used successfully on other distributions as well.
> >>> Honestly, as
> >>> >>>> much as I love to spread the love of Evergreen from what
> I can
> >>> infer from
> >>> >>>> your post I don't think this would be the right direction
> for you.
> >>> >>>>
> >>> >>>> Running a production system on a VM is dubious though
> possible but
> >>> then
> >>> >>>> connecting clients, doing the configuration, etc... these
> are going
> >>> to
> >>> >>>> require a big investment of time and energy on the part
> of staff.
> >>> >>>>
> >>> >>>>
> >>> >>>>
> >>> >>>>
> >>> >>>> On Sat, Jan 17, 2015 at 6:25 PM, Ben T.
> <t.ben38 at gmail.com <mailto:t.ben38 at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >>> >>>>
> >>> >>>>> Hello All,
> >>> >>>>>
> >>> >>>>> I volunteer for a tiny library that is growing. At this
> point
> >>> we're
> >>> >>>>> looking for a way to manage our check-outs/returns some
> way more
> >>> efficient
> >>> >>>>> than paper and pencil. Evergreen seems like it could be
> a good
> >>> solution
> >>> >>>>> for us, however we are not able to afford a server at
> this point
> >>> nor a
> >>> >>>>> subscription (we basically have no money). Is there any way
> >>> (hopefully a
> >>> >>>>> simple one) to run Evergreen just on a single Windows
> (7) machine,
> >>> keeping
> >>> >>>>> the catalog and patron information locally?
> >>> >>>>>
> >>> >>>>> Sincerely,
> >>> >>>>> Ben
> >>> >>>>> Librarian Volunteer
> >>> >>>>> Kendall Clawson Library
> >>> >>>>>
> >>> >>>>> p.s. I am decently tech savvy, but not VERY tech savvy.
> I won't be
> >>> >>>>> able to do any major amount of coding on my own.
> >>> >>>>>
> >>> >>>>
> >>> >>>>
> >>> >>>>
> >>> >>>> --
> >>> >>>>
> >>> >>>> Rogan Hamby, MLS, CCNP, MIA
> >>> >>>> Managers Headquarters Library and Reference Services,
> >>> >>>> York County Library System
> >>> >>>>
> >>> >>>> “You can never get a cup of tea large enough or a book
> long enough
> >>> to
> >>> >>>> suit me.”
> >>> >>>> ― C.S. Lewis <
> >>> http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/1069006.C_S_Lewis>
> >>> >>>>
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >> --
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Rogan Hamby, MLS, CCNP, MIA
> >>> >> Managers Headquarters Library and Reference Services,
> >>> >> York County Library System
> >>> >>
> >>> >> “You can never get a cup of tea large enough or a book long
> enough to
> >>> >> suit me.”
> >>> >> ― C.S. Lewis
> <http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/1069006.C_S_Lewis>
> >>> >>
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Rogan Hamby, MLS, CCNP, MIA
> > Managers Headquarters Library and Reference Services,
> > York County Library System
> >
> > “You can never get a cup of tea large enough or a book long
> enough to suit
> > me.”
> > ― C.S. Lewis
> <http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/1069006.C_S_Lewis>
> >
>
>
>
>
> --
> Ruth Frasur
> Director of the Historic(ally Awesome) Hagerstown - Jefferson Township
> Library
> 10 W. College Street in Hagerstown, Indiana (47346)
> p (765) 489-5632; f (765) 489-5808
>
> Our Kickin' Website<http://hagerstownlibrary.org> Our Rockin' Facebook
> Page <http://facebook.com/hjtplibrary> and Stuff I'm
> Reading<http://pinterest.com/hjtplibrary/ruth-reads/>
>
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