[OPEN-ILS-GENERAL] Help for a tiny library?
Joe
knuevejo at oplin.org
Mon Jan 19 15:31:04 EST 2015
I realized on reflection that referred to the wrong prerequisite
program, re Evergreen install instructions.. oops.
That will teach me to type specific emails from memory.
Have a good day one and all.
Joe
Joseph Knueven
Director
Germantown Public Library
51 N. Plum St.
Germantown, OH 45327
937-855-4001
knuevejo at oplin.org
On 1/19/2015 11:36 AM, Joe wrote:
> The hosted solution does look interesting, though it sounds like the
> library's finances would not extend to $500 annually..
> (it looks like the trial version is only good for 30 days?)
> In a similar vein if money were tight but not non-existent, Biblionix
> looks good too, and depending on how well they scale down, might price
> competitively..
>
> Ben, if it were me I would take a closer look at OpenBiblio. Many
> moons ago (say nearly 10 years ago) I seem to recall installing
> OpenBiblio on my Windows XP desktop to the point of having it up and
> running for the sake of testing and seeing what it was like.
>
> It can be installed on just a Windows computer using XAMPP.
> (instructions are at
> http://osilms.pbworks.com/w/page/6466900/openbiblio%20installation )
>
> From my recollection it was at the time one of the first times I
> played around with something that ideally runs in a LAMP environment
> (linux+apache+mysql+php/perl). I don't recall it taking a hateful
> amount of time to figure out XAMPP or Openbiblio's own software. So,
> if you use Ubuntu for your everyday desktop, and are as you said
> mildly tech savvy this might be a worth while experiment.
>
> I'll admit, in an ideal world it would be on a dedicated linux server
> with an internet connection for the public to search the catalog, but
> in the limited circumstances we're talking about, having it on a
> single Windows computer I would think would a lot better than pencil
> and paper, and I can't see it working any slower than pencil and
> paper, even if the Windows PC has to grind a bit to handle the
> databases and such.
>
> I agree about Ben's view on a VMs with non-tech savvy users, VMs can
> certainly be used in production environments, but in situations where
> the end-user never knows whether they're connecting to a physical
> computer or a VM.
>
> As much as I hate to admit it, because I love Evergreen and would
> prefer to see as many Evergreen libraries as possible, installing it
> is not for the faint of heart. I've tried once to install it for the
> sake of having a sandbox installation, being in a consortium where
> others administer our production servers and in that attempt I
> couldn't get past getting xulrunner installed properly. I probably
> need to be working on it with the IRC open on a second computer,
> probably during hours when the sys admins here in North America are
> online and I can ask questions of the folks who actually know what
> they're doing with it...
>
> Best of luck, and have a good day.
>
> Joe
>
>
> Joseph Knueven
> Director
> Germantown Public Library
> 51 N. Plum St.
> Germantown, OH 45327
> 937-855-4001
> knuevejo at oplin.org
> On 1/19/2015 9:30 AM, Ruth Frasur wrote:
>> Just a brief addition. This looked interesting. It's basically
>> turnkey and a hosted solution. As you can see, I linked the
>> pricing/features page. Why not get straight to the bottom line? I
>> +1 Terran's fundraising idea.
>>
>> http://www.libraryworld.com/pricing.html
>>
>> On Sun, Jan 18, 2015 at 7:19 PM, McCanna, Terran
>> <tmccanna at georgialibraries.org
>> <mailto:tmccanna at georgialibraries.org>> wrote:
>>
>> Ben,
>>
>> Ouch, I didn't see Surpass's price tag. There's something called
>> ResourceMate that has a "Lite" edition for $295, and another
>> called PrimaSoft Small Library Organizer Pro for $245, both of
>> which are designed for very small libraries to run on a single
>> machine. Again, I haven't used either, but they might be worth
>> investigating. Maybe you could do a bit of fundraising so you
>> don't have to pay out of pocket?
>>
>> Good luck!
>>
>>
>> Terran McCanna
>> PINES Program Manager
>> Georgia Public Library Service
>> 1800 Century Place, Suite 150
>> Atlanta, GA 30345
>> 404-235-7138 <tel:404-235-7138>
>> tmccanna at georgialibraries.org <mailto:tmccanna at georgialibraries.org>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Ben T." <t.ben38 at gmail.com <mailto:t.ben38 at gmail.com>>
>> To: "Evergreen Discussion Group"
>> <open-ils-general at list.georgialibraries.org
>> <mailto:open-ils-general at list.georgialibraries.org>>
>> Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2015 6:39:17 PM
>> Subject: Re: [OPEN-ILS-GENERAL] Help for a tiny library?
>>
>> Thank you for all the responses.
>>
>> Rogan, you inferences are generally correct. I do not have much
>> experience. I have worked with virtual machines before, and I
>> use Ubuntu
>> on my personal computer, but I have never really been a sys
>> admin. As for
>> time, I do not have much time per week, but I have a soft
>> deadline to make
>> something work by June. So I possibly could set up a VM and make
>> this
>> work. However, our computer is shared with a bunch of volunteers
>> at the
>> community center, many of whom are not very computer literate. My
>> intuition tells me that a VM would not survive meddling from
>> other folks.
>> So if a VM is the only available solution with Evergreen, I think
>> I will
>> keep looking.
>>
>> Terran, Surpass looks amazing, except for the ~$3000 price tag on it.
>> Anything purchased is likely coming out of my pocket at this
>> point, and
>> there is no way I can afford that.
>>
>> Yunus, Openbiblio also looks good, except it runs into the same
>> server
>> problem that evergreen does.
>>
>> So I think I'll keep looking for solutions. Thanks, everyone.
>>
>> On Sun, Jan 18, 2015 at 1:47 PM, Rogan Hamby
>> <rogan.hamby at yclibrary.net <mailto:rogan.hamby at yclibrary.net>>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > It does still require Linux skills as it's a virtual machine
>> whether he
>> > has that skill set or is willing to invest the time to learn it
>> is a
>> > pre-requisite, something I wouldn't assume from the question.
>> >
>> > On Sun, Jan 18, 2015 at 12:12 PM, Mark Ehle <markehle at gmail.com
>> <mailto:markehle at gmail.com>> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Ben did say he was decently tech savvy and asked for a way to run
>> >> Evergreen on a pc. VirtualBox fits the bill.
>> >>
>> >> On Sun, Jan 18, 2015 at 12:08 PM, McCanna, Terran <
>> >> tmccanna at georgialibraries.org
>> <mailto:tmccanna at georgialibraries.org>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Regardless of whether it's feasible in a Windows VM
>> environment or not,
>> >>> I really think that Evergreen is too complicated to set up
>> and maintain for
>> >>> someone who doesn't have a strong skillset in system
>> administration. A
>> >>> hosted ILS would be a better option, but a lot of tiny
>> libraries can't
>> >>> afford that either.
>> >>>
>> >>> Personally, if I were in Ben's position, I would investigate
>> some of the
>> >>> library automation system offerings that are designed
>> specifically for
>> >>> small libraries. Does anyone have any experience with
>> Surpass? I haven't
>> >>> used it, but it looks like it was designed for tiny libraries
>> (less than
>> >>> 5000 items) and has a standalone license option for running
>> on a single
>> >>> non-networked PC: http://www.surpasssoftware.com/surpass-sl.html.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Terran McCanna
>> >>> PINES Program Manager
>> >>> Georgia Public Library Service
>> >>> 1800 Century Place, Suite 150
>> >>> Atlanta, GA 30345
>> >>> 404-235-7138 <tel:404-235-7138>
>> >>> tmccanna at georgialibraries.org
>> <mailto:tmccanna at georgialibraries.org>
>> >>> ----- Original Message -----
>> >>> From: "Mark Ehle" <markehle at gmail.com
>> <mailto:markehle at gmail.com>>
>> >>> To: "Evergreen Discussion Group" <
>> >>> open-ils-general at list.georgialibraries.org
>> <mailto:open-ils-general at list.georgialibraries.org>>
>> >>> Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2015 11:26:53 AM
>> >>> Subject: Re: [OPEN-ILS-GENERAL] Help for a tiny library?
>> >>>
>> >>> We ran everything in VirtualBox for a long time. Is it the PC
>> hardware
>> >>> you
>> >>> object to? Or just VM's in general.
>> >>>
>> >>> On Sun, Jan 18, 2015 at 11:24 AM, Mark Ehle
>> <markehle at gmail.com <mailto:markehle at gmail.com>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> > When you have quad-core PC's with 8gb of ram, the
>> difference is not
>> >>> that
>> >>> > much. I've run production VM's on my PC in a pinch and our
>> staff never
>> >>> > knew.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > What do you suggest Ben does?
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> > On Sun, Jan 18, 2015 at 11:12 AM, Rogan Hamby <
>> >>> rogan.hamby at yclibrary.net <mailto:rogan.hamby at yclibrary.net>>
>> >>> > wrote:
>> >>> >
>> >>> >> Hi Mark,
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> There is a big difference between running a production
>> system on a
>> >>> >> desktop VM and playing with it. Running Evergreen in
>> Virtual Box is
>> >>> common
>> >>> >> for developers, documenters, etc....
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> And it's important for those who don't have a systems
>> background that
>> >>> a
>> >>> >> VM in a server environment and throwing up a VM on a
>> desktop with
>> >>> limited
>> >>> >> resources are very different things.
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> On Sun, Jan 18, 2015 at 11:00 AM, Mark Ehle
>> <markehle at gmail.com <mailto:markehle at gmail.com>>
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >>> Not at all dubious, Rogan. We run Sirsi Symphony as a VM
>> and have
>> >>> been
>> >>> >>> for years. We pretty much don't run our servers on
>> anything else
>> >>> *but*
>> >>> >>> VM's. It's just how things are done now. I've run
>> Evergreen in
>> >>> Virtual Box
>> >>> >>> (totally free) on my PC to play with it and it works just
>> fine.
>> >>> Given a
>> >>> >>> decent enough PC,mainly enough memory, I'm sure you could run
>> >>> Evergreen on
>> >>> >>> a VM for a few clients for a small library.
>> >>> >>>
>> >>> >>> On Sun, Jan 18, 2015 at 10:49 AM, Rogan Hamby <
>> >>> rogan.hamby at yclibrary.net <mailto:rogan.hamby at yclibrary.net>
>> >>> >>> > wrote:
>> >>> >>>
>> >>> >>>> Hi Ben,
>> >>> >>>>
>> >>> >>>> This was alluded to but to be clear, Evergreen isn't Windows
>> >>> software.
>> >>> >>>> Evergreen was built to run on Linux and is commonly run
>> on Debian
>> >>> though I
>> >>> >>>> know it's used successfully on other distributions as well.
>> >>> Honestly, as
>> >>> >>>> much as I love to spread the love of Evergreen from what
>> I can
>> >>> infer from
>> >>> >>>> your post I don't think this would be the right
>> direction for you.
>> >>> >>>>
>> >>> >>>> Running a production system on a VM is dubious though
>> possible but
>> >>> then
>> >>> >>>> connecting clients, doing the configuration, etc...
>> these are going
>> >>> to
>> >>> >>>> require a big investment of time and energy on the part
>> of staff.
>> >>> >>>>
>> >>> >>>>
>> >>> >>>>
>> >>> >>>>
>> >>> >>>> On Sat, Jan 17, 2015 at 6:25 PM, Ben T.
>> <t.ben38 at gmail.com <mailto:t.ben38 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>> >>> >>>>
>> >>> >>>>> Hello All,
>> >>> >>>>>
>> >>> >>>>> I volunteer for a tiny library that is growing. At
>> this point
>> >>> we're
>> >>> >>>>> looking for a way to manage our check-outs/returns some
>> way more
>> >>> efficient
>> >>> >>>>> than paper and pencil. Evergreen seems like it could
>> be a good
>> >>> solution
>> >>> >>>>> for us, however we are not able to afford a server at
>> this point
>> >>> nor a
>> >>> >>>>> subscription (we basically have no money). Is there
>> any way
>> >>> (hopefully a
>> >>> >>>>> simple one) to run Evergreen just on a single Windows
>> (7) machine,
>> >>> keeping
>> >>> >>>>> the catalog and patron information locally?
>> >>> >>>>>
>> >>> >>>>> Sincerely,
>> >>> >>>>> Ben
>> >>> >>>>> Librarian Volunteer
>> >>> >>>>> Kendall Clawson Library
>> >>> >>>>>
>> >>> >>>>> p.s. I am decently tech savvy, but not VERY tech
>> savvy. I won't be
>> >>> >>>>> able to do any major amount of coding on my own.
>> >>> >>>>>
>> >>> >>>>
>> >>> >>>>
>> >>> >>>>
>> >>> >>>> --
>> >>> >>>>
>> >>> >>>> Rogan Hamby, MLS, CCNP, MIA
>> >>> >>>> Managers Headquarters Library and Reference Services,
>> >>> >>>> York County Library System
>> >>> >>>>
>> >>> >>>> “You can never get a cup of tea large enough or a book
>> long enough
>> >>> to
>> >>> >>>> suit me.”
>> >>> >>>> ― C.S. Lewis <
>> >>> http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/1069006.C_S_Lewis>
>> >>> >>>>
>> >>> >>>
>> >>> >>>
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> --
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> Rogan Hamby, MLS, CCNP, MIA
>> >>> >> Managers Headquarters Library and Reference Services,
>> >>> >> York County Library System
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> “You can never get a cup of tea large enough or a book
>> long enough to
>> >>> >> suit me.”
>> >>> >> ― C.S. Lewis
>> <http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/1069006.C_S_Lewis>
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> >
>> > Rogan Hamby, MLS, CCNP, MIA
>> > Managers Headquarters Library and Reference Services,
>> > York County Library System
>> >
>> > “You can never get a cup of tea large enough or a book long
>> enough to suit
>> > me.”
>> > ― C.S. Lewis
>> <http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/1069006.C_S_Lewis>
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Ruth Frasur
>> Director of the Historic(ally Awesome) Hagerstown - Jefferson
>> Township Library
>> 10 W. College Street in Hagerstown, Indiana (47346)
>> p (765) 489-5632; f (765) 489-5808
>>
>> Our Kickin' Website<http://hagerstownlibrary.org> Our Rockin'
>> Facebook Page <http://facebook.com/hjtplibrary> and Stuff I'm
>> Reading<http://pinterest.com/hjtplibrary/ruth-reads/>
>>
>
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