[OPEN-ILS-GENERAL] Linux VPS

Fri Nov 20 10:38:43 EST 2015

Hi Ben,

Thanks for helping me think this through.  I did some further digging and found that backup for the bundle I described would cost $10 more a month, and they make it sound like adding resources is a simple matter.  I'm inclined to start at this level and then add on if we have performance issues.  Our current database is probably fewer than 15,000 bibs, but I expect it to double in size within a year.  We are still cataloging a good sized backlog.

Ciao,
Bruce

> On Nov 20, 2015, at 12:19 AM, Ben Shum <bshum at biblio.org> wrote:
> 
> Hi Bruce,
> 
> Theoretically, I think that ought to be enough resources in general
> for a reasonable starting system.  But I honestly do not have exact
> metrics for system specifications to draw from.  Other folks might
> suggest more appropriate specs based on their experience.  I'm going
> to do some thinking aloud next...
> 
> For a moment or so, I wondered on average how large the PostgreSQL
> metabib indexes would look like for a library with 30k titles.  Using
> a totally, terribly rough example on this, I have access to an
> Evergreen library's database that I know which has roughly 10k live
> bibs equaling around 1.3 GB of metabib data content (using Galen
> Charlton's method for analyzing Evergreen database size:
> https://galencharlton.com/blog/2010/05/database-server-disk-space-usage-in-evergreen/).
> So if you're three times that, that could mean you might use up 3.9 GB
> (or more if your bibs are well defined).  Not to mention all the other
> parts of the database.  *Note: these numbers are very rough and quite
> possibly wrong in either direction.*
> 
> Having a large database of contents could affect overall system
> performance, because if you do not have enough memory to keep your
> Evergreen database happy in memory, it will have to hit the disk to
> retrieve necessary data more frequently.  That said, because Linode
> uses SSDs for disk storage, I wonder if PostgreSQL performance issues
> would be mitigated anyways with the generally faster I/O with that
> technology.  Unfortunately, that is not something I have easy
> experience measuring... though hey, I once ran a copy of our
> production Evergreen database (with 1.2 million bibs) on a Thinkpad
> laptop with 2 core i7 CPU, 16 GB of RAM, and 500 GB SSD and it felt
> like I was searching faster than our old production environment (made
> up of lots of clustered servers and regular disk storage).  So you
> never know what magic SSDs can deliver... :)
> 
> I know from my own personal experience using Linode, that there are
> also plans like the one you describe where you can add on extra RAM
> with additional cost.  Not sure if that's worth looking into long-term
> either.  In any case, it would seem that you may have some options to
> alter the system specifications later if necessary to expand the
> Hi Bruce,
> 
> Theoretically, I think that ought to be enough resources in general
> for a reasonable starting system.  But I honestly do not have exact
> metrics for system specifications to draw from.  Other folks might
> suggest more appropriate specs based on their experience.  I'm going
> to do some thinking aloud next...
> 
> For a moment or so, I wondered on average how large the PostgreSQL
> metabib indexes would look like for a library with 30k titles.  Using
> a totally, terribly rough example on this, I have access to an
> Evergreen library's database that I know which has roughly 10k live
> bibs equaling around 1.3 GB of metabib data content (using Galen
> Charlton's method for analyzing Evergreen database size:
> https://galencharlton.com/blog/2010/05/database-server-disk-space-usage-in-evergreen/).
> So if you're three times that, that could mean you might use up 3.9 GB
> (or more if your bibs are well defined).  Not to mention all the other
> parts of the database.  *Note: these numbers are very rough and quite
> possibly wrong in either direction.*
> 
> Having a large database of contents could affect overall system
> performance, because if you do not have enough memory to keep your
> Evergreen database happy in memory, it will have to hit the disk to
> retrieve necessary data more frequently.  That said, because Linode
> uses SSDs for disk storage, I wonder if PostgreSQL performance issues
> would be mitigated anyways with the generally faster I/O with that
> technology.  Unfortunately, that is not something I have easy
> experience measuring... though hey, I once ran a copy of our
> production Evergreen database (with 1.2 million bibs) on a Thinkpad
> laptop with 2 core i7 CPU, 16 GB of RAM, and 500 GB SSD and it felt
> like I was searching faster than our old production environment (made
> up of lots of clustered servers and regular disk storage).  So you
> never know what magic SSDs can deliver... :)
> 
> I know from my own personal experience using Linode, that there are
> also plans like the one you describe where you can add on extra RAM
> with additional cost.  Not sure if that's worth looking into long-term
> either.  In any case, it would seem that you may have some options to
> alter the system specifications later if necessary to expand the
> environment.
> 
> Hope some of this proves useful and spurs thought and suggestions by others.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> -- Ben
> 
>> On Thu, Nov 19, 2015 at 9:45 PM, Bruce Willms <bwillms at frontiernet.net> wrote:
>> Hi Ben, et al.,
>> 
>> Thanks for the information.  I thought I had sent a reply a long time ago, but I just discovered that it somehow got hung up in my outbox, and I can't dislodge it.  So I'm sending another.
>> 
>> Would a set-up like the one below be sufficient for a smallish instance of Evergreen, or do you think we would need something more robust?  Our collection is small, probably less than 30,000 titles, and we don't expect to do much circulation, being essentially a research library.
>> 
>>    4    GB RAM
>>    4    CPU Cores
>>    96  GB SSD Storage
>>    4    TB Transfer
>>    40   Gbps Network In
>>    500  Mbps Network Out
>> 
>> This bundle would cost $40 a month, which is quite reasonable in my book.  I don't know yet what sort of backup or other support is provided for this price.
>> 
>> Any advice is greatly appreciated.
>> 
>> Best regards,
>> Bruce
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Open-ils-general [mailto:open-ils-general-bounces at list.georgialibraries.org] On Behalf Of Ben Shum
>> Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2015 8:25 PM
>> To: Evergreen Discussion Group <open-ils-general at list.georgialibraries.org>
>> Subject: Re: [OPEN-ILS-GENERAL] Linux VPS
>> 
>> Hi Bruce,
>> 
>> I've used Linode for personal applications like IRC and testing web services, but have not applied it towards any live Evergreen systems.
>> I have created test droplets with DigitalOcean too, back when they were one of the leaders in use of SSD disk storage, and that was certainly a nice hosted environment.  The SSDs make things speedier when you don't necessarily have all the memory you'd like to run things fast.
>> 
>> These are some areas I would be check before using any third-party host environment:
>> 
>> 1)  Making sure to spec out a powerful enough system (or more than one instance if needed).  Getting the right amount of resources for CPU, RAM, disk space can be very important when putting together a proper Evergreen system.  Even a test server could malfunction on less than 2 GB of RAM (with memory killers wrecking your installed instance).  So having an appropriate sized instance is important.
>> 
>> 2)  Knowing what your data protection services are like.  In the past, with groups like DigitalOcean, they had issues where the data in the instances could be leaked due to not properly deleting content between node rebuilds (which has since been fixed, as far as I last read).
>> But how safe is your data "in the cloud"?  What rules govern how your instances are accessed?  With library data, I try to be cautious on this front.
>> 
>> I'll let others chime in when they can, but hopefully this gets some conversation going for you.
>> 
>> Good luck in your investigations, and feel free to ask further questions as applicable.
>> 
>> -- Ben
>> 
>>> On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 10:12 PM, Bruce Willms <bwillms at frontiernet.net> wrote:
>>> We are just gearing up to set up an instance of Evergreen and are
>>> wondering if anyone is running the system on a hosted VPS service like
>>> Linode.  It seems like a reasonable solution in our case since we
>>> don’t have IT staff to support a server, etc.  I’m curious to know if
>>> others have done this and what their experience has been – good, bad,
>>> or otherwise.  Or if this is a recipe for disaster.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I’m new to this list and to Evergreen, and looking for some pointers
>>> from experienced hands.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Bruce Willms
>>> 
>>> East Side Freedom Library
>>> 
>>> St. Paul, MN
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Benjamin Shum
>> Evergreen Systems Manager
>> Bibliomation, Inc.
>> 24 Wooster Ave.
>> Waterbury, CT 06708
>> 203-577-4070, ext. 113
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Benjamin Shum
> Evergreen Systems Manager
> Bibliomation, Inc.
> 24 Wooster Ave.
> Waterbury, CT 06708
> 203-577-4070, ext. 113