[OPEN-ILS-GENERAL] discouraged
Kathy Lussier
klussier at masslnc.org
Tue Mar 20 11:02:15 EDT 2018
Hi all,
To add to what Rogan and Terran said, I love seeing this discussion on
the list just as I love seeing discussions like this in IRC. Anything
that gets us all talking about ways to improve the software will lead to
seeing those improvements implemented in the software. But Rogan is
correct in that we need to have technical and front line staff talking
with each other, which is why I'm glad to see this discussion happening
on the general list and not on a list where there may be fewer
developers subscribed.
Despite the understanding our developers may have about library
workflows, I think there are times when assumptions are made about
workflow that don't exactly match what libraries experience. There is no
substitute for the feedback developers can get from those who are using
the software every day and experiencing the effect of bugs or missing
features.
However, I want to reiterate what Terran said about getting these issues
in Launchpad. In addition, comments should be added to those bugs that
link to any discussions we have on the list or in IRC. Whatever anyone
may think about Launchpad, it is the way developers are able to organize
their work and track what fixes / improvements need to be made. If links
to these discussions aren't added to the Launchpad discussion, the
developers may move in a direction that's different from what was agreed
upon in a previous e-mail thread.
Also, there are many reasons why people may not want to or cannot use
IRC. It certainly is much more feasible to be frequently active in IRC
when you aren't working at a circulation or reference desk for large
portions of the day. However, I want to stress that IRC is available for
all Evergreen users, not just the technical users. The level of
discussion depends on who is in IRC at a given time and what is being
discussed. If somebody is looking for installation help or if developers
are discussing how to get code to work in a certain way, the discussion
is going to be necessarily technical. However, sometimes, developers are
discussing implementation approaches, and these questions would really
benefit from end user feedback.
I would have loved to have seen more end-user insight into discussions
like the one here -
http://irc.evergreen-ils.org/evergreen/2017-09-27#i_327096. There have
also been times when we specifically ping acquisitions or cataloging
folks in IRC to get answers to questions about workflows or to get
details about how a feature should work.
One might argue that those types of questions should be posted to the
list, but that doesn't always happen, particularly when somebody is
looking for a quick answer for a project that are working on in the
moment. If we have a good balance of developers and end users both on
the lists and in IRC, then we can build better bridges between all of
our users with the ultimate result being better software for all.
I'm not saying all this to push people into using a platform they don't
feel comfortable with, but if others are interested in joining IRC once
in a while, I don't want them to be scared off because they think the
talk might be too technical or that its primary audience is developers.
> Now that we know there is an audience who wants to discuss Web Client
> issues in library-speak, our consortium will share more of its
> discoveries and issues here.
Yes, please do! I think this will be very helpful for those who are just
starting to use the web client and those who are planning to move to it
very soon!
Kathy
On 03/20/2018 09:16 AM, Rogan Hamby wrote:
> And I'd like to caution people about creating boundaries between parts
> of the community. I know that the technical and front line staff seem
> to often speak different languages. I worked on the front line of
> libraries for two decades including as a circulation and reference
> manager as well as systems librarian. I now mostly do technical
> work. Many of the programmers have a very deep understanding of how
> libraries work. They may not know specific workflows but some have
> worked with libraries their entire career and know a lot even if
> they've never brought the book drop in on a cold morning (I don't miss
> that part at all). The developers I've gotten to know well in the
> community over the years love libraries and have made them their
> career. Those gaps should be bridged as much as possible as it really
> is one community.
>
> Rogan Hamby, MLIS
>
> Data and Project Analyst
>
> Equinox Open Library Initiative
>
> phone: 1-877-OPEN-ILS (673-6457)
>
> email: rogan at EquinoxInitiative.org
>
> web: http://EquinoxInitiative.org
>
> On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 9:10 AM, Terran McCanna
> <tmccanna at georgialibraries.org <mailto:tmccanna at georgialibraries.org>>
> wrote:
>
> I agree that this list is a good venue to discuss problems,
> solutions, and workarounds, but want to stress that any bugs that
> are identified need to be put into launchpad with as much detail
> as possible.
>
> Terran McCanna
> PINES Program Manager
> Georgia Public Library Service
> 1800 Century Place, Suite 150
> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1800+Century+Place,+Suite+150++Atlanta,+GA+30345&entry=gmail&source=g>
> Atlanta, GA 30345
> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1800+Century+Place,+Suite+150++Atlanta,+GA+30345&entry=gmail&source=g>
>
> 404-235-7138 <tel:%28404%29%20235-7138>
> tmccanna at georgialibraries.org <mailto:tmccanna at georgialibraries.org>
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 8:14 AM, scott.thomas at sparkpa.org
> <mailto:scott.thomas at sparkpa.org> <scott.thomas at sparkpa.org
> <mailto:scott.thomas at sparkpa.org>> wrote:
>
> Hi Diane,
>
> I agree completely. I only use IRC to attend the Evergreen
> Oversight Board Meeting because that is the venue of choice
> for those meetings. Otherwise, I avoid it. I find it to be
> difficult to use, and it seems to lean more towards the
> programmer side of things. Launchpad, while a great tool, is
> similarly geared for the programming community.
>
> For library-speak, this list seems to be the best place.
> Now that we know there is an audience who wants to discuss Web
> Client issues in library-speak, our consortium will share more
> of its discoveries and issues here.
>
>
> Scott
>
> *From:*Open-ils-general
> [mailto:open-ils-general-bounces at list.georgialibraries.org
> <mailto:open-ils-general-bounces at list.georgialibraries.org>]
> *On Behalf Of *Diane Disbro
> *Sent:* Monday, March 19, 2018 9:43 PM
> *To:* Evergreen Discussion Group
> <open-ils-general at list.georgialibraries.org
> <mailto:open-ils-general at list.georgialibraries.org>>
> *Subject:* Re: [OPEN-ILS-GENERAL] discouraged
>
> Absolutely. If I only complained at my library and never sent
> a help desk ticket to the IT department, it would be my own
> fault if nothing got fixed.
>
> There are, however, two sets of people working with Evergreen.
> The programmers and the end users. And we speak two different
> languages. I have looked at the IRC and it is
> programmer-speak, not library-speak. I would like more
> communication with end users in library-speak.
>
> Thanks for listening.
>
>
> Diane Disbro
>
> Branch Manager/Circulation Coordinator
>
> Union Branch
>
> Scenic Regional Library
>
> 308 Hawthorne Drive
> <https://maps.google.com/?q=308+Hawthorne+Drive+%0D%0A+%0D%0A+%0D%0A+Union,+MO++63084&entry=gmail&source=g>
>
> Union, MO
> <https://maps.google.com/?q=308+Hawthorne+Drive+%0D%0A+%0D%0A+%0D%0A+Union,+MO++63084&entry=gmail&source=g><https://maps.google.com/?q=308+Hawthorne+Drive+%0D%0A+%0D%0A+%0D%0A+Union,+MO++%C2%A0+%C2%A0++63084&entry=gmail&source=g>63084
> <https://maps.google.com/?q=308+Hawthorne+Drive+%0D%0A+%0D%0A+%0D%0A+Union,+MO++63084&entry=gmail&source=g>
>
> (636) 583-3224 <tel:%28636%29%20583-3224>
>
> On Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 11:41 AM, Jason Stephenson
> <jason at sigio.com <mailto:jason at sigio.com>> wrote:
>
> On 03/19/2018 11:55 AM, scott.thomas at sparkpa.org
> <mailto:scott.thomas at sparkpa.org> wrote:
> > Jason,
> > I agree Launchpad is a great tool, but I, for one,
> would like to see more discussion about bugs and Webby
> issues on this list. I often have trouble finding bugs in
> Launchpad so I feel sheepish about creating new ones there
> without first discussing it with others with more
> expertise, and this seems like a good place to do that.
>
> And I am not trying to stop people from discussing bugs on
> this or any
> other list. I think that's fine, too.
>
> It's just that Launchpad is the official record of the
> known bugs and
> feature requests, so if it is not on Launchpad, it is not
> on the RADAR.
>
> I hear that IRC is also a good place to discuss bugs or
> other issues. :)
>
> >
> > Scott
>
>
>
--
Kathy Lussier
Project Coordinator
Massachusetts Library Network Cooperative
(508) 343-0128
klussier at masslnc.org
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/kmlussier
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