[OPEN-ILS-GENERAL] discouraged

Tue Mar 20 16:34:54 EDT 2018

Good afternoon -

This is an excellent discussion. We do need to be careful not to develop
separate groups while at the same time facilitating discussion in whatever
language each of us speaks.

I'm with Scott. I receive notifications for bug reports and scan them to
see if they contain anything pertinent to circulation. If I don't
understand what the report is describing, if it says something about child
scope and bare primitives, I delete the email and move on.

I divide my time between being lead manager at a branch and coordinating
circulation for our ten branch district. Understanding and implementing
Evergreen for circ staff is my responsibility. I have to be able to
understand what is going on well enough to translate it for our circ staff
and my boss.

Since posting my first email about "discouraged," I have learned that one
of my showstoppers has been fixed with 3.0.3. We in Missouri just don't
have that upgrade yet. I also learned of a work-around for Dymo printers.
We tried it and it didn't work for us but, still----it was neighbor helping
neighbor.

Thank you.

Diane Disbro
Branch Manager/Circulation Coordinator
Union Branch
Scenic Regional Library
308 Hawthorne Drive
Union, MO     63084
(636) 583-3224

On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 10:02 AM, Kathy Lussier <klussier at masslnc.org>
wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> To add to what Rogan and Terran said, I love seeing this discussion on the
> list just as I love seeing discussions like this in IRC. Anything that gets
> us all talking about ways to improve the software will lead to seeing those
> improvements implemented in the software. But Rogan is correct in that we
> need to have technical and front line staff talking with each other, which
> is why I'm glad to see this discussion happening on the general list and
> not on a list where there may be fewer developers subscribed.
>
> Despite the understanding our developers may have about library workflows,
> I think there are times when assumptions are made about workflow that don't
> exactly match what libraries experience. There is no substitute for the
> feedback developers can get from those who are using the software every day
> and experiencing the effect of bugs or missing features.
>
> However, I want to reiterate what Terran said about getting these issues
> in Launchpad. In addition, comments should be added to those bugs that link
> to any discussions we have on the list or in IRC. Whatever anyone may think
> about Launchpad, it is the way developers are able to organize their work
> and track what fixes / improvements need to be made. If links to these
> discussions aren't added to the Launchpad discussion, the developers may
> move in a direction that's different from what was agreed upon in a
> previous e-mail thread.
>
> Also, there are many reasons why people may not want to or cannot use IRC.
> It certainly is much more feasible to be frequently active in IRC when you
> aren't working at a circulation or reference desk for large portions of the
> day. However, I want to stress that IRC is available for all Evergreen
> users, not just the technical users. The level of discussion depends on who
> is in IRC at a given time and what is being discussed. If somebody is
> looking for installation help or if developers are discussing how to get
> code to work in a certain way, the discussion is going to be necessarily
> technical. However, sometimes, developers are discussing implementation
> approaches, and these questions would really benefit from end user
> feedback.
>
> I would have loved to have seen more end-user insight into discussions
> like the one here - http://irc.evergreen-ils.org/
> evergreen/2017-09-27#i_327096. There have also been times when we
> specifically ping acquisitions or cataloging folks in IRC to get answers to
> questions about workflows or to get details about how a feature should work.
>
> One might argue that those types of questions should be posted to the
> list, but that doesn't always happen, particularly when somebody is looking
> for a quick answer for a project that are working on in the moment. If we
> have a good balance of developers and end users both on the lists and in
> IRC, then we can build better bridges between all of our users with the
> ultimate result being better software for all.
>
> I'm not saying all this to push people into using a platform they don't
> feel comfortable with, but if others are interested in joining IRC once in
> a while, I don't want them to be scared off because they think the talk
> might be too technical or that its primary audience is developers.
>
> Now that we know there is an audience who wants to discuss Web Client
> issues in library-speak, our consortium will share more of its discoveries
> and issues here.
>
> Yes, please do! I think this will be very helpful for those who are just
> starting to use the web client and those who are planning to move to it
> very soon!
>
> Kathy
>
> On 03/20/2018 09:16 AM, Rogan Hamby wrote:
>
> And I'd like to caution people about creating boundaries between parts of
> the community.  I know that the technical and front line staff seem to
> often speak different languages.  I worked on the front line of libraries
> for two decades including as a circulation and reference manager as well as
> systems librarian.  I now mostly do technical work.  Many of the
> programmers have a very deep understanding of how libraries work.  They may
> not know specific workflows but some have worked with libraries their
> entire career and know a lot even if they've never brought the book drop in
> on a cold morning (I don't miss that part at all).  The developers I've
> gotten to know well in the community over the years love libraries and have
> made them their career.  Those gaps should be bridged as much as possible
> as it really is one community.
>
> Rogan Hamby, MLIS
>
> Data and Project Analyst
>
> Equinox Open Library Initiative
>
> phone:  1-877-OPEN-ILS (673-6457)
>
> email:  rogan at EquinoxInitiative.org
> web:  http://EquinoxInitiative.org
>
> On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 9:10 AM, Terran McCanna <
> tmccanna at georgialibraries.org> wrote:
>
>> I agree that this list is a good venue to discuss problems, solutions,
>> and workarounds, but want to stress that any bugs that are identified need
>> to be put into launchpad with as much detail as possible.
>>
>> Terran McCanna
>> PINES Program Manager
>> Georgia Public Library Service
>> 1800 Century Place, Suite 150
>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1800+Century+Place,+Suite+150++Atlanta,+GA+30345&entry=gmail&source=g>
>> Atlanta, GA 30345
>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1800+Century+Place,+Suite+150++Atlanta,+GA+30345&entry=gmail&source=g>
>> 404-235-7138 <%28404%29%20235-7138>
>> tmccanna at georgialibraries.org
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 8:14 AM, scott.thomas at sparkpa.org <
>> scott.thomas at sparkpa.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Diane,
>>>
>>>    I agree completely. I only use IRC to attend the Evergreen Oversight
>>> Board Meeting because that is the venue of choice for those meetings.
>>> Otherwise, I avoid it. I find it to be difficult to use, and it seems to
>>> lean more towards the programmer side of things. Launchpad, while a great
>>> tool, is similarly geared for the programming community.
>>>
>>>    For library-speak, this list seems to be the best place. Now that we
>>> know there is an audience who wants to discuss Web Client issues in
>>> library-speak, our consortium will share more of its discoveries and issues
>>> here.
>>>
>>>
>>> Scott
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Open-ils-general [mailto:open-ils-general-bounc
>>> es at list.georgialibraries.org] *On Behalf Of *Diane Disbro
>>> *Sent:* Monday, March 19, 2018 9:43 PM
>>> *To:* Evergreen Discussion Group <open-ils-general at list.georgia
>>> libraries.org>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [OPEN-ILS-GENERAL] discouraged
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Absolutely. If I only complained at my library and never sent a help
>>> desk ticket to the IT department, it would be my own fault if nothing got
>>> fixed.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> There are, however, two sets of people working with Evergreen. The
>>> programmers and the end users. And we speak two different languages. I have
>>> looked at the IRC and it is programmer-speak, not library-speak.  I would
>>> like more communication with end users in library-speak.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks for listening.
>>>
>>>
>>> Diane Disbro
>>>
>>> Branch Manager/Circulation Coordinator
>>>
>>> Union Branch
>>>
>>> Scenic Regional Library
>>>
>>> 308 Hawthorne Drive
>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=308+Hawthorne+Drive+%0D%0A+%0D%0A+%0D%0A+Union,+MO++63084&entry=gmail&source=g>
>>>
>>> Union, MO
>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=308+Hawthorne+Drive+%0D%0A+%0D%0A+%0D%0A+Union,+MO++63084&entry=gmail&source=g>
>>>
>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=308+Hawthorne+Drive+%0D%0A+%0D%0A+%0D%0A+Union,+MO++%C2%A0+%C2%A0++63084&entry=gmail&source=g>
>>> 63084
>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=308+Hawthorne+Drive+%0D%0A+%0D%0A+%0D%0A+Union,+MO++63084&entry=gmail&source=g>
>>>
>>> (636) 583-3224 <%28636%29%20583-3224>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 11:41 AM, Jason Stephenson <jason at sigio.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> On 03/19/2018 11:55 AM, scott.thomas at sparkpa.org wrote:
>>> > Jason,
>>> >    I agree Launchpad is a great tool, but I, for one, would like to
>>> see more discussion about bugs and Webby issues on this list. I often have
>>> trouble finding bugs in Launchpad so I feel sheepish about creating new
>>> ones there without first discussing it with others with more expertise, and
>>> this seems like a good place to do that.
>>>
>>> And I am not trying to stop people from discussing bugs on this or any
>>> other list. I think that's fine, too.
>>>
>>> It's just that Launchpad is the official record of the known bugs and
>>> feature requests, so if it is not on Launchpad, it is not on the RADAR.
>>>
>>> I hear that IRC is also a good place to discuss bugs or other issues. :)
>>>
>>> >
>>> > Scott
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> Kathy Lussier
> Project Coordinator
> Massachusetts Library Network Cooperative(508) 343-0128klussier at masslnc.org
> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/kmlussier
>
>
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